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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

What to avoid?

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Truth seeker

01-12-2006 20:59:38




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Hi!
I haven't had experience with hay equipment (yet) I'm hoping to do hay this year and and I'm looking for equipment.
Now what are the machines that would give me the most time in the garage, mud, or dust, and at the same time send me globe trotting, and that the companies sell mistakenly as usefull equipment? I don't need a purchase that I would regret. Since I'm in the hills of WV, any hay equipment that hates hills is also not wanted.
Any positive opinions will greatly be appreciated
I've gotten a lot of help from this forum, and I thank you once again!
As you can tell I'm greener than a hayfield in May!

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mattwv

01-16-2006 17:42:43




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 Re: What to avoid? in reply to Truth seeker, 01-12-2006 20:59:38  
I am interested to know what the poorest county in the state is? I am in Tucker County. I have tried baling with an M and an IH 430 baler. Not having live power take off makes you quick with the clutch and pop into neutral. I now have a 4600 SU ford tractor. It is great with the baler. I am having mower issues. I bought a superior double action sickle mower, but I am not impressed. I am looking at the drum mowers. My tractor doesn't have hydraulic remotes. I really don't want to try a haybine. Try subscribing to Lancaster Farming. They have a great classified section. Unfortunatley, there is not a great used equipment market here. Most people use equipment until it is well beyond its useful life. I learned that the hard way with my first "modern" tractor. Good Luck.

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JTBF

01-15-2006 07:38:51




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 Re: What to avoid? in reply to Truth seeker, 01-12-2006 20:59:38  
I too live in WV and will start haying for the first time by myself in 2006. Because of WV terrain DO NOT consider a tractor without ROPS. If your property is like mine I would just save up for 4WD unit and bypass 2WD. Why safety first. You can always rent, borrow or coop for a bailer. Especially with someone who square bales will need your help in return. I went for a new Kubota which currently has more US made parts than another well known tractor. Good fuel MPG too.

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Truth seeker

01-14-2006 18:24:07




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 Re: What to avoid? in reply to Truth seeker, 01-12-2006 20:59:38  
Hi!
I thank you very much for all your responses.
We live in the "poorest county" of the state, and most of the hay equipment for sale (in this county) is either A. Field ready ,or in other terms, ready to sit in the field and add iron oxide to the soil. B. good condition, meaning enough to get you by. or C. barn kept, priced to the stars, I was drooling over the prices you listed. We had a JD 14T up in P.A. but it wouldn't fit on our 7ft wide trailer.
So we might be limited to a round baler, unless a small square baler that was at the right price would fit on the trailer.
Incidently there is an allis chalmers WD45 AND a WD sitting down in the field, BUT the WD has had water in one of the cylinders and is locked up, and the WD45 has a unidentified engine problem.
So unless I can't get one or the other fixed, I hope I won't need a new tractor. (of course that doesn't mean that I wouldn't LIKE another tractor..... we all do;)
Also, do you know of a way to cram a square baler on a 7' wide trailer?
Thanks for all your input!!

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Bernie in MA

01-15-2006 09:07:38




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 Re: What to avoid? in reply to Truth seeker, 01-14-2006 18:24:07  
When the dealer delivered my 14T he had a little wheel that bolted to the axle behind the baler pickup so that the righthand wheel could hang outside the truck bed.



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Dave H (MI)

01-15-2006 07:39:31




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 Re: What to avoid? in reply to Truth seeker, 01-14-2006 18:24:07  
If the tires are good and the bearings good and greased, a baler can be pulled home on it's own without a trailer. Back roads and slow speeds because implement tires are not made for highway travel. I guess, or have heard, that they will tend to heat up on you. I have pulled a baler as much as 60 miles behind the truck. With patience you could have brought the 14T home. Don't know the distance but slow and steady would have got you there.

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Errin OH

01-14-2006 21:04:11




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 Re: What to avoid? in reply to Truth seeker, 01-14-2006 18:24:07  
I stuck a 8" wide baler on a 6'6" trailer by removing the hub and tire on the pickup side. To load we took a long 2x12 and a couple blocks to match the ramp for the plunger side. Backed the baler up the trailer ramps. Once the (plunger side) wheel was on the trailer I stuck one of those rolling floor jacks under the pickup and finshed pulling it on. Blocked up the pickup and left it ridin over the trailer wheels, Removed tire and hub, only hung over by about 3". Tide it all down, put on a flag on it and stuck to the right side of the road.

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jpuleo

01-14-2006 20:35:58




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 Re: What to avoid? in reply to Truth seeker, 01-14-2006 18:24:07  
For heavens sake. Take a day and fix the wd with the stuck engine if thats the only problem. Its not like you dont have a parts tractor for it too.

Your just wasting our time crying broke if you've got enough money to waste on buying another tractor!



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used to be james

01-13-2006 17:02:20




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 Re: What to avoid? in reply to Truth seeker, 01-12-2006 20:59:38  
Do not buy a sickle mower of any kind!! Unless of course you like a pain in the backside. Not worth the headache. Buy an early 90's disk mower for less than $2000. Kuhn made them for NH, JD, and others. Make mowing fun instead of a dreaded headache.



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Dave H (MI)

01-14-2006 09:14:18




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 Re: What to avoid? in reply to used to be james, 01-13-2006 17:02:20  
I feel your pain, BUT....

Those sickle mowers aren't as bad as you make out. You get a lot of experience for a nominal amount of money. They are easier to fix than a moco. If you have your grease gun on the tractor and an extra pitman in the truck you will do just fine. All that is left is tuning it up and learning the right angle and speed. Don't try to cut it with a lot of dew down inside it.

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Dave H (MI)

01-13-2006 13:59:17




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 Re: What to avoid? in reply to Truth seeker, 01-12-2006 20:59:38  
What to avoid? Getting your inputs so high that you can't possibly ever turn a buck. The advice below regarding a Farmall M is sound enough....BUT, the M does not generally have independant PTO. This means that if your old baler is having trouble and you jump on the clutch the PTO will stop and the baler will jam.
We use an MTA and the independant PTO keeps the baler turning when the tractor stops allowing the baler to catch up. Problem is the MTA is a "money" tractor. A 400 like Kelly has in his pic is ideal. 450 is a nice tractor too and either will cost less than the MTA. Most anything can pull a rake. Most tractors can handle a sickle bar mower also. Kelly used to use a JD #5 mower but since he upgraded his acres he is into mower conditioners. We still use the #5 mower. Advantage is that they are dirt cheap around here at less than $100. Disadvantage is that they pretty much are guaranteed to have SOME type of breakdown every season. Usually just a busted pitman. Keep your cost down until you find out if you like it. You can take my word for it.....it's not for everybody. Hay is made in the hottest days of the year it seems. You sweat like a hog and the clouds of dust and chaff coat every bare patch of skin. That stuff can react badly with your hide! Depending on the person it might just itch or it can feel like it is burning you. Bales are scratchy and leave your arms all beat up. Even so the hayfield is a beautiful sight and there is nothing like the feeling that it is all put up and you are done for a while.

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Kelly C

01-13-2006 19:30:51




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 Re: What to avoid? in reply to Dave H (MI), 01-13-2006 13:59:17  
third party image

Hi Dave!!!
Yup I shure do love those 300's and 400's.
Think about it. No one is really collecting them yet. So the price is reasonable. I see many 300's and 400's go for less than $1200 on sales.
AC WD45 sure is nice too but I havent seen a decent one go for less than $2000 and the 400 is a much better tractor.

In my opinion the 400 is a perfect match for small square baling.
50 hp, Live pto, TA is a great option to have. In 2nd gear when you get to a thicker area of hay. Hitting the TA is just the right amount slow down to get through it. As a matter of fact. The only reason we have to depress the clutch is when we break a bale. Other wise its non stop baling.
Also the 400 is the exact right tractor for a NH 469 haybine. A perfect combo. 4th gear is also the perfect speed for raking.
Wouldnt give up my 400 for nuthin.

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Dave H (MI)

01-14-2006 09:10:53




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 Re: What to avoid? in reply to Kelly C, 01-13-2006 19:30:51  
Yessir....agree with you 100% on all counts. Independant PTO is a must. I didn't even mention the TA but when I hit that tough spot for the baler I just grab the TA and pull it back and that is enough reduction in speed most of the time. When it isn't I bless the PTO as I hate pulling hay out of the baler. Those early number series Farmalls are beautiful tractors with all the bells and whistles and nice low prices. You never know where tractor collecting is headed but I would bet those early number series tractors will have good long term appreciation. You and I had very similar operations once. I still haven't made the jump to more acreage....but maybe someday.....

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bobmt

01-13-2006 12:36:04




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 Re: What to avoid? in reply to Truth seeker, 01-12-2006 20:59:38  
A allis WD or w45 are a great tractor for bailing and cheep! Only draw back is they sit a little high, then again....so do most older tractors. If you dont have a tractor for this, you need to be looking for WD45 with a wide front end.



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Errin OH

01-13-2006 11:18:11




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 Re: What to avoid? in reply to Truth seeker, 01-12-2006 20:59:38  
First and fore most don't go it alone. Take someone who knows with ya to check out anything you are thinkin of buyin. I have seen rusted out, part missin, siezed up, grass growin in the half rotted decayin bale that was left in it 5 years ago, NH68 baler go for $800 because someone said it was a good one and someone else didn't know better. All brands have good models, all brands have bad models, some more than others. I myself, first tractor, bought one that turned out to be a dud. Paid a premium for a non runner on the understanding it needed a tune up. Actually it needed a rebuild, no compression. By the time I had it going reliably I could have bought two tractors.

Next, match your equipment. Do not expect to pull a NH 575 with a Farmall M. Prolly not a good idea to be dragin a JD14 behind an AC 7030. While it would work, if the baler got in trouble that tractor could tear it up good before you could shut it down. If you have a 1960�s tractor look at a baler in the same age range and was advertised to run on your sized tractor.

Tractor selection, if you do not have one and will be shoppin, look for the following features. More for convenience than need. Adjustable tire width. Most if not all have this feature but some are easier than others to set. Smaller fixed rim tractors may not have this. You will also what something that easy and cheap to add weight to. A smaller tractor may only be in the 2000 lb range. If you what to pull a baler and wagon (up to 6000lbs) you should have a little more weight on it. Findin out you have to upgrade to cast rims to get it would suck. You will also want live PTO. I baled for years with a Ford NAA. It really sucked to have to get on the clutch to stop forward motion just to have the baler plug up because the pto stopped as well. Creeper gear. That old Ford ran entirely to fast in 1st gear. Get one that will do � mile an hour with the PTO at 540.

Mower, Rake, and Tedder. Lot of options. Generally I would say just watch the width of the tools. Nine foot mower, and seven foot rake are not the best options. But if you tedd it out, it really doesn�t matter. I use a 9� mower, tedd out two rows with a 17 foot tedder, and rake three passes in a windrow with a seven foot rake. Sure be nice to do the rakin in one pass though.

If it were me and;

Just playin � under $3000, less than 10 acres
Whatever tractor that can be had cheap and has ~30 HP (Farmall H, M?) $1000-2000
Off brand baler in good condition $200-500 (ford, oliver, etc)
Pull type bar rake (on steal), $50-100
Pull type sickle $100-200

Budget equipment $4000-8000, less than 50 acres
D19 � $1500-3500 cheap HP and with hi/lo gives an option to stop forward momentum with PTO running.
NH x8 series thru 2xx series or JD x4, xx4, reliable if not abused and reasonable price wise $500-1500. Belt driven sickle mower with bolt on section $200-500 (3pt for lift)
Pull type bar rake (on rubber), Cheap under 200 bucks
For anything but grass a Crimper, Again cheap, under 100 bucks.

Little better $8000-12000, close to or more than 50 acres
60+ HP diesel tractor $4-5000
NH 3xx (not 310/320) JD 3xx - $1500-3000
NH, JD, etc Moco, Hybine (maybe disk mower) � $2000-3000
JD, NH Bar Rake (? wheel rake) $500-800
2-4 basket tedder $1000-2000

Link to an old post

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Langoley

01-13-2006 01:14:57




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 Re: What to avoid? in reply to Truth seeker, 01-12-2006 20:59:38  
I don't know what part of West Virginia you are in but here in the hills of Greenbrier county you have to be careful pulling a wagon behind your baler.It gets kinda steep in places!If you need a tractor I just happed to have a dandy 1940 M for sale but as far as equipment I would say just about anything will do.I use a Hesston PT-10 moco,an old NI rake and aN IH 440 baler.



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Bradb

01-13-2006 06:03:57




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 Re: What to avoid? in reply to Langoley, 01-13-2006 01:14:57  
Ever try plastic twine in that 440. I have one too and have always used sisal but want to try plastic.



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paul

01-12-2006 22:05:47




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 Re: What to avoid? in reply to Truth seeker, 01-12-2006 20:59:38  
Are you thinking round or square bales?

New Holland made their money off of hay equipment - they have good balers, as well as JD for small squares. Round balers NH & Vermeer have good older units.

If you need to save money, any old rake will do. The NH roll-a-bar is the gold standard tho.

Alfalfa or damp locations benifit from a crimper or mower/conditioner or haybine. Grass in a dry location will be fine with a sickle mower.

--->Paul

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old

01-12-2006 21:25:21




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 Re: What to avoid? in reply to Truth seeker, 01-12-2006 20:59:38  
I'd say hands down NH, new holland makes some of the best if not the best hay equipment. But you also pay for them some times unless you get lucky.



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old

01-12-2006 21:24:31




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 Re: What to avoid? in reply to Truth seeker, 01-12-2006 20:59:38  
I'd say hands down NH, new holland makes some of the best if not the best hay equipment. But you also pay for them some times unless you get lucky.



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Kelly C

01-12-2006 21:18:16




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 Re: What to avoid? in reply to Truth seeker, 01-12-2006 20:59:38  
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Hmmm hills huh?

Try this.
Farmall 400 w/ wide front
John Deere 14T baler
Hay rack
New Holland 469 haybine
NH 56 hay rake. NH 55 would be fine also.

Or use New Holland baler 68 or newer.
JD 336 is ok too.
Works good for me.

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Truth seeker

01-15-2006 06:55:59




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 Re: What to avoid? in reply to Kelly C, 01-12-2006 21:18:16  
Hi!
Thank you for all your informative posts, You've given me a lot to chew on and use.
You've given me info about what works best, and transportation, I've gotten a lot of help from these forums. Keep up the good work! I'll check back often.
Thanks once again!



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