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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

hay production cost

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Doug Rogers

11-30-2005 05:12:35




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After soil test done by extension office a couple of years ago it was suggested that I apply 80 lbs nitrogen and 25 lbs phosophorus about this time of year and again in the spring to my brome field. Yesterday I spent $796 on the fertilizer for just 20 acres and will do it again in the spring I imagine. I got last year 93 5X5 round bales off this field but don't know the actual weight of the bales. I cut and rake and have a guy bale for me to the tune of $7.00 per bale. By my calculations, just the fertilizer and round baling cost me about $22 per bale. I see brome round bales sell for $25 per bale all the time around here. Does anybody else see a problem here or am i just economically challanged.

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JD9295

12-04-2005 14:43:31




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 Re: hay production cost in reply to Doug Rogers, 11-30-2005 05:12:35  
We switched from alfalfa to birdsfoot trefoil. It is close to the same protein as alf. and doesnt play out like alf. will. And ive noticed it isnt depleting the soil as fast as alf. and my grass fields do. Depending on what your feedind, cows or horses, you can let it grow taller for cattle and get more tonage an acre, horses, cut it in bloom and sguare bale and youll have horse people calling you for it when they see the results from it.
We have birdsfoot with a little orchard and timothy mixed in and out stock are fat dumb and happy and im saving money not calling the fertilizer company every year

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seth_ia

12-02-2005 18:58:31




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 Re: hay production cost in reply to Doug Rogers, 11-30-2005 05:12:35  
I'll be the first to admit that I don't know much about brome. In my area brome is worth a little more than CRP. If your going to grow hay grow alfalfa. I been around corn enough to tell you that if your going to apply N, dry cost to much money. I would consider looking at 32% liquid. I usually figure that you should budget $40-50/acre for P and K on alfalfa if your shooting for max yeild. If you need P, see if there are any hog confinements close that need a place to get rid of manure.

How profitable hay is depends mostly on where you are. In central Iowa it can be very profitable compared to row crops, since hardly anyone raises it. Making big square or big round bales are the only operations that it may pay to hire out. Mowers, rakes, and small balers are dirt cheap if you have alittle mechanical ability. Big square bales of good hay usually go for about $100/ton. I charge $10 for an 1800# big square bale. The guys with round balers charge the same for about the same size bale. I have a very cheap big square baler and figure I need to run over about fifty acres for 3 cuttings to break even. However baling for a few neighbors can quickly make a baler payment. Since I got the baler after third cutting, I have made half my baler payment already. I consider this pretty good since at the end of the day I have a baler to use for my self.

Farming is not a high return business. I usually figure you can make $50-$100/acre with hay in Iowa after all costs. This may not be great but is a lot better than $30/acre corn or soybeans. Hay atleasts leaves room for rising rent, which has hit $200/acre on some ground around here. Small error in managment can burn any profit.

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kyhayman

12-01-2005 19:13:52




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 Re: hay production cost in reply to Doug Rogers, 11-30-2005 05:12:35  
I'd forget the fall fertilizer and put it all down in the spring. Your rates are about what mine are for N. I dont apply P (high test levels) but do put on lots of K. With that said your yields arent too bad for a single cutting (I normally get at least 2 out of grass hay, sometimes 3). Biggest thing to me is the question of applying synthetic nitrogen to any hay crop at these N prices. When my cost per unit topped $.25 a pound I went to all alfalfa mixtures. Just no way to justify putting $300 a ton ammonium nitrate on hay (or $400 that they forecast this spring).

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hayray

12-01-2005 15:09:22




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 Re: hay production cost in reply to Doug Rogers, 11-30-2005 05:12:35  
You are putting way too much fertilizer on. Brome never is going to produce that much. It is a total waste of time to put nitrogen on in the fall, who ever said to do that is giving you bad advice. Nitrogen does not stick around too much for the next year. You should only be putting on about 200 lb.s per acre of triple 19 about every 3rd year and stop wasting your money. Generally you need to make a mininum of $80/ton to meet cost on a high input cost hay like alfalfa. So you should easily be coming out alot better than you are. The main thing that will help your brome out will be rain.

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HaySam

12-01-2005 05:32:59




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 Re: hay production cost in reply to Doug Rogers, 11-30-2005 05:12:35  
I don't see the N in the fall



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edchainsaw

11-30-2005 19:24:19




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 Re: hay production cost in reply to Doug Rogers, 11-30-2005 05:12:35  
I baled a lot of custom hay in my time... and if he only paid $7 he is doing a lot better than he could owning a baler..

I charge $8 and for the last 4 yrs have figured I had $9 in each bale, but didnt raise it because it was the neighboryly thing to do not raising your rates so much... I just turn down any new business and suggest others find new person.. oh and the guy that got most of my business... is quitting next year to... same reason

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fixerupper

11-30-2005 18:31:21




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 Re: hay production cost in reply to Doug Rogers, 11-30-2005 05:12:35  
The quality of the hay we raise sometimes depends on where we live. I usually have 15 acres of alfalfa on a sandy hill that sometimes would not grow corn. We normally get enough rain to grow three cuttings a year on this sand patch which is good, but the rain always seems to come when the windrows are laying out there and the higher humidity in this area won't let it dry out fast enough, so I don't very often get the chance to bale green, dairy quality hay.Do I make a profit at it? For this sandy patch I don't lose as much money growing hay as I do with corn. On my good ground hay isn't even worth messing with, compared to what I make on row crops. By the way, can your brome field be row cropped, or isn't that an option? JIM

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ted 492

11-30-2005 18:30:10




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 Re: hay production cost in reply to Doug Rogers, 11-30-2005 05:12:35  
As a full time grass seed farm manager and a very small time hay farmer I suggest Number one you have to have a healthy stand and good weed control to break the weed seed cycle. This will allow for less synthetic fertilizer and a heavier healthier crop. This is not done in one year-It takes several years as does paying off the equipment you probably should purchase to bail yourself. You don't need anything fancy just dependable enough for your little use. Try skipping fall fert and concentrate on spring. After bailing chop the stubble with a gyromower or anything-this is very important to your grasses health for the next year.Be persistent! I also agree with the others try for little ways to sell for more and produce for less-Average is only the same as everyone else!Good Luck!

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730 virgil

11-30-2005 15:55:47




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 Re: hay production cost in reply to Doug Rogers, 11-30-2005 05:12:35  
i think you can't afford to raise your own hay unless you have a 20 or more cows we can buy lots of hay here about for 80 to 85 dollars per ton



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LeeWv

11-30-2005 14:43:17




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 Re: hay production cost in reply to Doug Rogers, 11-30-2005 05:12:35  
Sounds like you need to buy an old square baler and advertise to your local horse people who would gladly pay $2.50-$3.00 per bale!



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thejdman01

11-30-2005 14:15:20




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 Re: hay production cost in reply to Doug Rogers, 11-30-2005 05:12:35  
farming is a terrible invetment. have lost money for the past 4 years. it is an expensive hobby. i do make money on hay jsut not wheat corn or beans. i would be happy jsut to break even one of these years. you have to watch who does your soil analysis. if it is done by the fertilizer company it may not be honest. it may but it may not. some are crooked some arent you got to watch out.

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WyoDave

11-30-2005 13:09:20




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 Re: hay production cost in reply to Doug Rogers, 11-30-2005 05:12:35  
This is why full time farmers need to farm so many acres. You can probably make some changes to help the bottom line. You have to cut out some expenses, such as baling your own hay, or reducing fertilizer costs. We usually only apply 75-80% or what our soil tests reccomend. After that it doesn't seem to matter. Your other option is to increase your income. Use a different bale type that is more valuable, or use a different type of hay such as alfalfa that is worth more. To maximize profits you'll probably need a combination of lowering inputs and increasing outputs. You've got several options, you just have to decide what will work best for your area.
David

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dairyagri

11-30-2005 12:46:52




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 Re: hay production cost in reply to Doug Rogers, 11-30-2005 05:12:35  
I cut and baled for a few yrs before I became wiser. Now I buy and leave the rained on stuff behind. I knew someday it was going to cost big dollars to fix worn out equipment and all I saved was going to be lost. I bought $15000 dollars worth of hay this yr and all I had to do was un load it. I increased my livstock to use the hay ground.



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Dave H (MI)

11-30-2005 12:16:32




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 Re: hay production cost in reply to Doug Rogers, 11-30-2005 05:12:35  
You have to remember who it is that is giving you advice before you get out your checkbook. I cut hay and make a pretty nice return on investment plus I just plain enjoy doing it. Hanbert has it well described below, but he is obviously a number guy who likes to analyze things on a strict statistical basis....no offense intended.
Your county guy is a chemist, not a farmer, and while your soil may be short on certain things it don't mean that you should do it, especially if the cost/benefit is not there. Some experts are not necessarily always right. When I wanted to start cutting the field down the road from me, I went to the son of a local farmer who had died and asked him for advice. He told me I would need to put about $35,000 into equipment (I paid $6700), then he told me the field was played out and would need to be plowed under and reseeded etc (I mowed it in the fall and got a great stand of alfalfa/timothy the next spring), he told me I had to cut it at PRECISELY the right time (I cut it when my job and rain permits) and then he told me not to bother because it wasn't worth the trouble (wrong again!). Personally, I would hold off on the spring application and maybe shop around for somebody with manure. Remember, the idear is to get money OUT OF the land.

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ChirsLSD

11-30-2005 12:14:44




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 Re: hay production cost in reply to Doug Rogers, 11-30-2005 05:12:35  
maybe you need to buy a $1400 round baler - 2 years and it is paid for and the rest of its life is profit - the more people that get involved in your hay making operation the smaller piece of the profit pie is yours to keep - or consider getting a square baler for a few hundred - more labor but the same hay is worth more - or do a combination of everything - square bale some - round some - diversify

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Jimmy King

11-30-2005 08:08:36




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 Re: hay production cost in reply to Doug Rogers, 11-30-2005 05:12:35  
Doug, you can always look at like I used to about feeding and butchering your own beef, hog etc. you know what you have. Jim



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Hanbert

11-30-2005 07:45:40




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 Re: hay production cost in reply to Doug Rogers, 11-30-2005 05:12:35  
I did the same calculation last year on hay. came to two conculsions: 1.) Project is O.K. for a hobby, but lousy as a business. 2.) All the experts who tell what you need to put on your field, are to put it politely, themselves full of fertilizer. My guess you would have gotten less hay off your field without fertilizer, but not some much less, that you would make up the ever increasing cost of chemical/petro based fertilizer. I also do farm loans for a living, so seeing ridiculous returns of 3% on cash purchase of farmland, and trying to balance the books with $1.58 bushels of corn, don't surprise me either.

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