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NAA 12 Volt Conversion

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Mashbox

01-24-2008 12:31:30




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My '54 NAA was converted to 12 volt when I purchased it, and it seems to be working fine. However, the wiring job is nasty and there is an aftermarket starter button installed near the key switch. I would like to go back to using the original trans cover mounted switch. I still need to take my ohm meter and test the switch to see if it is good.
I have searched the site but not found a wiring diagram for the NAA using the original switch. Does anyone have a diagram for this? I have looked at the diagram for the 600/800, but do not know if it is the same. There seems to be a resistor mounted under the hood, and I do not see that on the 600/800 wiring diagram. Also, I am assuming with the 12 volt negative ground you can still use the original starter button. Is this correct?

Thanks.

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john in la

01-25-2008 06:16:44




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 Re: NAA 12 Volt Conversion in reply to Mashbox, 01-24-2008 12:31:30  
I know it can be very frustrating when guys throw all these ways of doing something at you. Especially when they know how each piece works and you are really lost in the dark.
On the other hand it is very hard to talk electricity over the internet because there are so many ways to wire this tractor. If you can not understand the wiring looking at it just think how we feel never seeing the tractor.

So lets break it down piece by piece.

The coil has nothing to do with the starting system so we will leave it alone for now. You did say the system is working correctly.

In the starting system there is the Key switch; Starter solenoid; the push button switch; and the starter.

You said your key switch is on off so that is original and will work.
You need to check your starter push button on the trans with a OHM meter and see if it is still working.
And we all know the starter works well so that is good.
The part that really needs a look at is the Starter Relay or solenoid. Since you are using a dash button I know from past experience you most likely have the wrong relay. You are using what we call a car relay or the one used on 1965 and later tractors and you need a grounding or what we call a older tractor relay for the 600 or 601.

How a starter relay works

So you need to buy the correct relay. While you can get them from Napa any other auto parts store will most likely try to sell you the wrong part. You are looking for a grounding relay. It can be 3 post or 4 post. Does not matter; you just wire it different. If you are still unclear on his ask away; or we can give you links to where you can buy the correct part online.

For more info you can look at the following links. When looking at these any info I give on a 600 can also be used on the NAA. That piece you asked about with all the wires is a terminal block. It is just a insulated bolt where you can join wires together. Each bolt is insulated from each other. The poor man way of thinking would be all the wires you see on one bolt twisted together with black tape on it.
After reading all this you can now come back and ask questions. The best part is you will now understand what we are saying well enough to follow along.
If in the future you want to tackle the rest of the wiring and the coil we can then do that. Ford Hundred Series 12V Conversion
Wiring diagrams

Sure hope this helps you out
John

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Mashbox

01-24-2008 20:04:01




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 Re: NAA 12 Volt Conversion in reply to Mashbox, 01-24-2008 12:31:30  
It is 12 volt now, with an alternator. Only it is using an aftermarket starter button in place of the original tranny cover mounted pushbutton switch. You can now start it in gear. The wiring is very shabby, but it works. I was just looking for info to keep it 12V, but use the factory starter switch. I do not know if it is the original key switch or an automotive type, but it does have a 4 post solenoid.

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Mashbox

01-24-2008 17:09:11




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 Re: NAA 12 Volt Conversion in reply to Mashbox, 01-24-2008 12:31:30  
Sorry if I offended you. Not only do I want to know the right way to wire my tractor, I am trying to understand how it is wired now, as it is 12 volt and charging.



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RodInNS

01-24-2008 19:52:52




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 Re: NAA 12 Volt Conversion in reply to Mashbox, 01-24-2008 17:09:11  
What does it have now to activate the starter? A push button or a key?
Otherwise, you can get the original style grounding relay to use the original starter button, OR if you understand relays... You can get a headlight (4rd) relay and wire it so that the switched contacts control the present relay on the tractor. Now wire the control circuit of the 4rd with live (fused) power feeding into it, and then connect the GROUND wire for the relay to the old starter button.
That should work although I've nver tired that particlar setup.

What you may find is that you have a 12V system now, with an alternator.... The problem with alternators is that they continue to charge after the key is turned off and will backfeed the coil... and the engine won't shut off. So... the purpose of the automotive relay is often to power the coil off the switched relay. If you remove that relay you may find that the tractor won't run or it won't shut off. If you've got two small wires on the relay, this is a fair bet.
There are many other simple ways around that problem too, so if you want to go with the original style starter relay, so that and sort the rest out after. It's only money..... ....
The 4rd relay is about a buck or two in the bin at a truck parts store.


Rod

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Mashbox

01-24-2008 16:11:16




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 Re: NAA 12 Volt Conversion in reply to Mashbox, 01-24-2008 12:31:30  
So with a 12 volt coil I do not need a resistor. I am pretty sure it has a 12V coil now, but I will check. Also I am fairly certain it has an original style key switch, as it only has two positions, on and off. But I do know it has a 4 terminal solenod, not a 3 terminal.

Looking at the diagram for a 600/800 3 wire w/ diode, drawn by John in La and posted elsewhere on this site, there is a symbol I cannot identify. Between the key switch and the fuse symbol, here is a diamond shape with 7 wires conected, three on one side and four on another. Is this only showing common connections of three wires togethr and four wires together, or is this something else?

Thanks.

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souNdguy

01-24-2008 21:17:43




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 Re: NAA 12 Volt Conversion in reply to Mashbox, 01-24-2008 16:11:16  
If you have a resistor.. you don't have a 12v coil.

get one... and get rid of the resistor.

soundguy



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Bob

01-24-2008 16:25:37




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 Re: NAA 12 Volt Conversion in reply to Mashbox, 01-24-2008 16:11:16  
My GOSH, how complicated are you making this???

Follow the second diagram, and get the correct, original 6-Volt solenoid. It has the correct internal coil connections to work with the tranny-top neutral safety switch.


Since it's use is for such a short duty cycle, it will work JUST fine on 12-Volts.

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Link loading="auto" style="width:auto;height:auto" alt="Third Party Image">

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old

01-24-2008 14:24:36




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 Re: NAA 12 Volt Conversion in reply to Mashbox, 01-24-2008 12:31:30  
As Sound say, be sure to check the solaniod and make sure its the correct type or if you try to wire it up it will not work



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Greg_Ky

01-24-2008 13:11:31




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 Re: NAA 12 Volt Conversion in reply to Mashbox, 01-24-2008 12:31:30  
Will This Help?
third party image



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souNdguy

01-24-2008 12:38:09




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 Re: NAA 12 Volt Conversion in reply to Mashbox, 01-24-2008 12:31:30  
A late 8n, NAA, or hundred series wire diagram will do ya.

Do yourself a favor and eliminate that resistor an get a real 12v coil.. like a NAPA IC14SB for 16$.

Yes.. the 3 terminal OEM solenoid for the NAA will work fine on 12v.. I'll bet someone has replaced the oem solenoid with one that works from a key-start ( power).. instead of the old grounding style.

soundguy



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