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Ford Tractors Discussion Forum
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Ford S.O. S. did Jd steal it and use it for their

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Ben Gubbels

08-28-2006 12:09:40




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I recentlly heard about this story and need to hear the truth. Did a Ford engineer leave ford after tellin Ford not to use the s.o.s on the 6000 and then help build Jd's powershift? If so why didn't ford sue Jd they could have eliminated Jd then and won against their long rival. Well i just need the truth so please inform me.




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Fordfarmer

08-29-2006 06:38:58




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 Re: Ford S.O. S. did Jd steal it and use it for th in reply to Ben Gubbels, 08-28-2006 12:09:40  
I was told by a Ford dealer who sold Fords before the Select-o-speed came along (and long after)that one reason Ford pushed the selecto into showrooms before it was ready was that JD was developing a power shift, and Ford wanted to beat them to the punch. As to the comment on how auto car trannies are so much alike... one reason might be that auto makers sometimes outsource assemblies like trannies.... sometimes from their competitors! Ford sold trannies to GM under the Deerborn name, if I remember right.

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cdmn

09-03-2006 21:12:22




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 Re: Ford S.O. S. did Jd steal it and use it for th in reply to Fordfarmer, 08-29-2006 06:38:58  
No, it was GM that sold Hydramatics to the Lincoln division in the early 50s. Ford came up with their own in 1955 Lincolns. Had a smaller one for Fords and Mercurys beginning in about 1951.



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Tn Ford Farmer

08-28-2006 17:33:00




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 Re: Ford S.O. S. did Jd steal it and use it for th in reply to Ben Gubbels, 08-28-2006 12:09:40  
My Dad was in the Ford tractor business when the SOS came out. It was a piece of junk. He sold a gold demonstrator and it beat him back to the shop. He had never had any training on the SOS and tore it down. No parts were available however they had a training school and he went to that and they gave him the parts from the training trans. to fix the one he sold. When the 6000 was ready to come out Ford asked the engineers if it was ready and they said yes. Well, we all know what the 6000 turned out to be. Ford fired those engineers and they went to JD and developed the PS. They did change the design some but the 2 major things they did was to put a clutch in front of the trans and put it in a bigger engine tractor. My Dad told me that a farmer sued Ford over the 6000. Ford claimed the 6000 had been tested for so many hours and the farmer proved that it hadn't.

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Wayne in Iowa

08-29-2006 00:29:09




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 Re: Ford S.O. S. did Jd steal it and use it for th in reply to Tn Ford Farmer, 08-28-2006 17:33:00  
A "Dealer Showing"of the first SOS tractor was in the spring of 1959. ( 6000s came in 1962)As a Ford tractor mechanic, I went to Des Moines for this showing.And at that time , the roomer at this meeting was that "JD was watching closley" Some (what I consider reliable) information. Ford's cheif engineer for this project was releived of his job since he thought it was not ready to be marketed yet. He then went to work for JD.By the way , this gentleman is still alive and lives in Waterloo Iowa( as of the middle of July.) JDs main tractor plant is in Waterloo

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Bob

08-28-2006 18:16:56




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 Re: Ford S.O. S. did Jd steal it and use it for th in reply to Tn Ford Farmer, 08-28-2006 17:33:00  
TnFord,

Please elaborate on your statement "major things they did was to put a clutch in front of the trans".

Actually, on the 4020 PS, for example, there is a COLD WEATHER STARTING DISCONNECT ahead of the tranny, however what the foot clutch pedal does is release the wet clutches in the PS tranny itself, when depressed, and the foot clutch has NOTHING to do with the "cold weather starting disconnect" ahead of the tranny. That is operated by a stubby little hand lever, and you NEVER need to use that while OPERATING the tractor.

So, in normal operation, there is NO clutch being used ahead of the tranny.

Here's the stubby little disconnect lever...

Third Party Image

And, the disconnect clutch it operates:

Third Party Image

So what is your point... outside of it's use for easier cranking in cold weather (for which it is never needed, if you have decent batterys and a block heater), how does the disconnect clutch improve the operation of the powershift tranny????

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Rick (IA)

08-28-2006 12:31:24




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 Re: Ford S.O. S. did Jd steal it and use it for th in reply to Ben Gubbels, 08-28-2006 12:09:40  
Even if Ford had sued JD over the issue and won, it wouldn't have stopped Deere long, just as Ferguson suing Ford for "stealing" the hydraulic system, didn't stop Ford. Patent disputes don't often shut companies down, they just cost them money, sometimes lots of it, ....witness the RIM (Blackberry) settlement of recent months.



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Bob

08-28-2006 12:26:12




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 Re: Ford S.O. S. did Jd steal it and use it for th in reply to Ben Gubbels, 08-28-2006 12:09:40  
Not that it's worth responding to TROLL, but have you ever actually worked on a Deere Powershift or a Ford Selectospeed, or so much as studied a power flow diagram of either? Well, I have OH'ed BOTH.

They are about as different as night and day.

For the planetary "brakes", Ford used "bands". operated by servos, and Deere used hydraulically operated wet clutch packs for the same function... no BANDS. Doesn't seem much like a copied design to me. OF course, they can both be classified as hydraulically shifted planetary transmissions.

Now, let's move on, and argue Ford or Chevy vs. Dodge, or some other such nonsense!

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paul

08-28-2006 12:24:12




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 Re: Ford S.O. S. did Jd steal it and use it for th in reply to Ben Gubbels, 08-28-2006 12:09:40  
I suspose the truth is colored by 60 years or so, and only a few people ever know the honest truth, stories pick up a flavor or color pretty quickly when passed around.....

JD did get a Ford enineer & their tranny does end up imroving upon & refining what Ford started.

But then, all Ford had to do was make their own improvements, they gave up the lead on their own, so can't blame JD.

All cars seem to have 'about the same' 3 or 4 speed automatic tranny these days, why is that, who invented the bands for a car & why can anyone else make one other than that first company?????

Same deal, everyone steals what they can get away with from the compitition.

It's progress, if you inovate something you get all the beginning headaches, the competition gets to build it right from the beginning. :)

--->Paul

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