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Discussion Forum
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1964 Ford 21201 Ring-Pinion Problems

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terry simmons

01-17-2000 10:43:04




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Bern, Reference Ford 21201 Ford Tractor, (1963-4) 4cyl. gas , ser # 59668 Thanks for all the help you have given me on reparing the 1964 21201 Ford tractor rear-end. In my previous e-mail, I told you I suspected that at least one of the trumpets might have been worn or off-center, because one had a repair bushing installed. You said to check the depth, which I did, and both trumpets were excessively deep, non-concentric, and the bottoms of the bearing bores were unlevel.
I have replaced the trumpets, and in order to better evaluate the ring-pinion mesh, I have secured the right-side trumpet to the floor of my shop, and mounted the housing assembly to the trumpet. This allows me to install the Pinion Gear and Retainer Assy. in the Housing Assy. and observe the relationship of the Ring Gear to the pinion as I lower it into the housing.
There are several things that are wrong: First, the Pinion Pilot Bearing assy., on the end of the Pinion gear, does not reach all the way to the end of the support in the housing assembly: it lacks about 1/2 inch being fully seated. (The pinion Bearing Assy. is seated all the way into the housing.) I am not able to get preload on the pinion bearings in the Retainer Assy., without first installing about a 1/2 inch of spacers next to the front bearing of the pinion. If I install the washers, , preload can be set. This happens because the bearing bore bumps against the Thrust Washer before preload can be applied. This tells me that the Retainer assembly is either worn or I have the wrong Retainer Assy., or the wrong pinion, or the wrong housing for the tractor. The Ring and Pinion are new units, and the measurments compared to the old ring and pinion match up, so I feel confident that the gears are right.
I was given a extra Retainer assembly when I bought the tractor, and the measurements on the spare are the same as on the one I am using.
I do not know the history of this tractor, except that it has had recurrent ring and pinion problems, which I now understand, are very rare in Ford Tractors. The second problem is , : When I install the Ring Gear (Differential Assy) ,the pinion needs to go toward the rear of the tractor about 1/2 inch to fully mesh with the pinion. (about the same amount that the pilot bearing needs to go rearward). This is with the Differntial Assy. seated in the right-side trumpet and level and square with the housing.(the case is mounted to the trumpet, with the small end of the trumpet facing the floor, giving a good view of the ring and pinion)
The Differential assembly has new bearings, and the trumpets have new cups. The number stamped on the Retainer assy is NCA 4668-B (and the spare also)
The parts book indicates that the part should be NCA 4616-A (page 4-41 item 11). The casting numbers on the Housing (raised letters) are 312476 2 . these numbers are located on the left side, near the bottom of the housing. There are a smaller set of raised numbers, upside down in relation to the first numbers,
they are on a raised tab and are: 2H 14 I guess my questions really are: Are the two Retainer Assemblies equivalent, or has someone mixed them up in the past, creating a string of problems for the next person to deal with?. And do I have the proper housing for this tractor? I would certainly like to get to the bottom of this problem and fix this tractor properly. I cannot proceed further till I resolve these problems.
Any help you can give me on this problem will certainly be appreciated.
Terry Simmons tsim@surrealnet.net

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terry

03-29-2000 17:43:49




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 Re: 1964 Ford 21201 Ring-Pinion Problems in reply to terry simmons, 01-17-2000 10:43:04  
ERROR FOUND IN FORD PARTS BOOK!!!

Ford parts book PA-8800-C on page 4-20, item

number# 8, lists part # D1NN-4N028-A for both

ends of the pinion shaft on the model (ALL

PURPOSE) 21201 and 600 LCG.

THIS IS INCORRECT!

Although the rear end will assemble with these

parts, the mesh of the ring and pinion will be

incorrect, resulting in short gear life.

The number indicated is correct for bearing for the

front end of the pinion, but the back end (gear-end)
is not correct.

The correct number for the back bearing is:NCA

4630-A. This is equivalent to Timken HM 804843.

The parts book listed the correct cup for the

bearing.(TBAA-4628-A) = (TIMKEN # HM 80410)

This error was discovered when I attemted to determine the cause of repeat ring-gear failures with all new parts. After weeks of trial and error, shimming and spacing the pinion, I finally obtained an acceptable contact pattern for the ring and pinion. I did not like having to shim an assembly tha the factory indicated should fit without shims, but at the time I had no choice.All indications from Ford indicated the proper parts were installed.
I cannot leave a bone buried, however, and I would often awake at 4 am wondering what was really wrong with the picture: Something about it didn't digest well. I finally decided to research the cup number on the TIMKEN BEARING website.
I searched by the shaft diameter (1.750) and the Cup Diameter. (3.750) WALLA! There it was :!!
The proper cone(HM804843) for the cup(HM804810).
The rear end has now being disassembled and the shims and spacers have been removed.The proper bearing was installed and everything fits properly with no shims.The only adjustment needed is preload on the ring carrier bearings, which BERN covers on this forum very throughly.
BERN has been a tremendous help to me
throughout this whole project, going the extra mile to assist. I wholeheartedly recommend his advice, and thank him for his support.
Tsim@surrealnet.net

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