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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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TO-30 starts sometime cont.

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Jd/Mo

03-16-2008 13:55:34




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Well after the snow, the surgery, and other 'stuff' I finally got out to the country to try out my last parts replacement. So far I've replaced the starter, coil, points, condenser, starter switch, ignition switch, alternator ( 12 volt, 1 wire NAPA), battery, and all associated wiring. Now she starts when I think about hitting the starter, problem is she still runs for awhile and when i turn her off....er,er,er.... wait 15 mins. and she cranks fine again. The only thing I havent done is remove the dist. and check the centifigul advance springs, I did oil the shaft inside the distributor. Is this the only thing left do to find my problem? I'm pretty much at the end of my ability, and it's getting close to planting time ( food plots, I'm just a play time farmer) Thanks for any advice you guys can give.
jd

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joe in tn

03-19-2008 11:53:26




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 Re: TO-30 starts sometime cont. in reply to Jd/Mo, 03-16-2008 13:55:34  
My first red flag is you said the ground to the starter lug. You do have this wired as a negative ground system right. I know this may sound like a stupid question. But remember K.I.S.S keep it simple stupid, Postive to starter switch and switch to lug on starter. Neg to grounding point on dash or bell housing.
just my humble observation.



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john[mo]

03-17-2008 15:30:39




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 Re: TO-30 starts sometime cont. in reply to Jd/Mo, 03-16-2008 13:55:34  
have you put a digital meter on the battery while the tractor is running? it should be reading at least 12.5 volts while running to get some kind of a charge. if it is reading 12 volts or below while running it may be that you are running your battery down and when you shut it off it may be low. batteries will come back somewhat after sitting. take a voltage reading while the tractor is running to verify your alternator is charging.

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Jerry/MT

03-16-2008 17:13:04




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 Re: TO-30 starts sometime cont. in reply to Jd/Mo, 03-16-2008 13:55:34  
As george says, make sure that you have the correct 12V coil OR you have the six volt coil with the resistor. Your coil can only take about 4 amps max current so that means the total resistance in 12V primary circuit is 3 ohms. Generally a 6 volt coil is about 1.5 ohms so that means you need another 1.5 ohms in series with the 6 volt coil. If you don"t put the resisitor in the coil overheats and shorts internally stopping the engine. After a 15-20 minute cool down it will start again. It will repeat this behavior til the coil finally burns out.
If you buy the NAPA IC-14SB coil(~$15), it has the additional resistance built in so it doesn"t need another resistor. Also make sure that the wire from the coil to the distributor is connected to the coil terminal with the same sign as your battery ground. In your case, a negative ground.
When you have a not start situation that is not starter elated, I always recommend that you check the spark first. If you have the requisite FAT, BLUISH WHITE SPARK, AND if your timing is correct AND if you have adequate fuel flow you have all the ingredients for a successful start. I would worry about the advance weights as they don"t come into play until above 400-600 rpm. the only way they can hurt you is if they are stuck in the over advance direction when you try to start. You can easily check for this with a timing light.
If you have the FAT, BLUISH WHITE SPARK, THEN the next thing to check is the fuel delivery. Open the tnk valveand hold a can under the carb and remove the plug at the carb"s bottom. The gas should CONTINUOUSLY POUR OUT IN TO THE CAN AS LONG AS THERE IS FUEL IN THE TANK. If it doesn"t there is a restriction in the fuel delivery and you"ll have to find out where. There is a screen on the ful tank side of the tank valve, a screen or disk filter above the sediment bowl and the notorious "secret filter" at the fuel inlet elbow of the carb. Check "em all out and look for kinked fuel lines. The float can also hang up or the float valve can be clogged or there can be sediment piled up under the float in the carb fuel bowl.

Run these checks systematically and write down the results. You"ll soon find the root cause of your problems with out chaning every part in the fuel and ignition systems.

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JD/Mo

03-17-2008 06:18:11




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 Re: TO-30 starts sometime cont. in reply to Jerry/MT, 03-16-2008 17:13:04  
It 'Is' a NAPA 12 volt coil, and the fuel flow is good. The spark at no. 1 wire is blue color and she fires just fine when first started. After she runs awhile and I shut down, it sounds like a dead battery when I try to restart, er,er,er. But the battery is new, and the amp meter shows chare all the time she's running, and after cool down if I leave the key off she cranks just fine.
jd



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Jerry/MT

03-17-2008 08:55:43




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 Re: TO-30 starts sometime cont. in reply to JD/Mo, 03-17-2008 06:18:11  
Maybe were talking about a different problem then. Is the problem that the starter doesn"t crank the engine fast enough on the restart? Or is the problem the starter cranks the engine fast enough but it doesn"t start?

If it"s the former, what size cables do you have between the battery, the starter switch and the starter. They shoud be at least 0 or 1 size cables. When the starter cranks slowly anre the cables hot to the touch. If they are, that"s a sign that they maybe too small.
It could also be a dirty comutator in the starter and/or worn brushes in the starter.

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JD/mo

03-17-2008 15:18:44




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 Re: TO-30 starts sometime cont. in reply to Jerry/MT, 03-17-2008 08:55:43  
It dosen't crank hardly at all, kinda....uuggghh, uugghh! The cables,as well as the battery, and starter are new. A new #1 cable from the ground (batt) to the mounting lug on the starter. Pretty sure the ground is good. Its the second starter and the second battery, with the same results, so I'm thinking it's not either of them. Like I said new 12 volt (NAPA) coil, and wiring all the way thru, as per diagrams from this site. I'm kinda at the end of my abilities. Looks like the next step, if the cntrifugal advance isn't the answer, will be professional help, and I hate to think this thing has beaten me!! =)
jd

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Jerry/MT

03-17-2008 19:42:05




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 Re: TO-30 starts sometime cont. in reply to JD/mo, 03-17-2008 15:18:44  
It"s now obvious to me your problem is cranking not ignition or fuel.
Have you checked the battery ground. Make sure that where it connects to the dash is shinny & bright and the connection is tight. It sounds to me like it"s the starter power circuit. Are you battery connections clean and tight. I had a small crack in the starter connection once and I kept tightening and tightening and I still had a bad connection. I took the fitting off and it had a partial crack in it that would not let the connection get tight. Replaced the fitting and the problem went away. You said you had a new starter switch. Have you adjusted it so that you have good contact through it. I think it has to move aft for best contact. Loosen the bolts that hold the slotted plate and move it back.
Ifyou have a timng light, you can easily check the advance. You can also move it by hand twisting it against the direction of rotation.
I think that"s a real long shot, however.

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Fred Martin

03-17-2008 14:48:13




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 Re: TO-30 starts sometime cont. in reply to Jerry/MT, 03-17-2008 08:55:43  
Or his ground cable needs to be put down on one of the starter bolts. ohfred



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gshadel

03-16-2008 16:22:22




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 Re: TO-30 starts sometime cont. in reply to Jd/Mo, 03-16-2008 13:55:34  
Jd, in addition to Phil's comments, when you check your spark, make sure it is a bluish spark, not a weak yellow spark. Yellow spark is no good and will cause poor starting/running. Also check your er,er,er,er, timing with a timing light. Make sure you are shutting-off your gas shutoff valve when not running as your carb can easily overfill & flood and cause poor starting. I'm also assuming your running a 12V coil, not an original type 6V coil which can overheat with your 12V system and cause the problem you describe.

George

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phil(va)

03-16-2008 16:10:09




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 Re: TO-30 starts sometime cont. in reply to Jd/Mo, 03-16-2008 13:55:34  
Well, when it goes ... er er er... that is the time to check the spark and the fuel flow. Check each of them while it is cranking but not firing, and hopefully one (hopefully not both) will show you your problem.



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