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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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PERTRONIX / TIMING

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klaus

01-09-2008 05:41:26




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Hi again.
Can anyone explain to me a good way to time my engine (Standard). Thing is I have a Pertronix Ignitor, that works great. But I have messed up the engine timing. So if you have a way go go about this I will be glad to hear from you. Thanks. Klaus




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Bob (Aust)

01-10-2008 03:20:01




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 Re: PERTRONIX / TIMING in reply to klaus, 01-09-2008 05:41:26  
That, Jerry, is a brand new after market timing chain and brand new sprockets!!!

Timing appears to be fairly consistent as I timed the valves with the chain tight on the right hand side.

Interesting in that the Fergy engine has no chain tensioner, whereas the same (or very similar) engine in the Vanguard car and Triumph sports car both have timing chain tensioners.



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Bob (Aust)

01-09-2008 18:39:57




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 Re: PERTRONIX / TIMING in reply to klaus, 01-09-2008 05:41:26  
New timing chain and sprockets, showing slack in chain:

Link

A picture tells a thousand words!



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Jeff-oh

01-10-2008 06:18:15




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 Re: PERTRONIX / TIMING in reply to Bob (Aust), 01-09-2008 18:39:57  
Bob I wish you lived closer, an afternoon of doing is worth 1000 pictures.



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Jerry/MT

01-09-2008 22:50:05




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 Re: PERTRONIX / TIMING in reply to Bob (Aust), 01-09-2008 18:39:57  
Wow! That is a lot of slack. As you noted the valve timing must be sloppy also. Have you ever put a timing light on it to see how bad the timing deviated from the set value at idle? i had a loose timing chain on a car and the timing was varying +/- 3 degrees( 3o)at idle.



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Bob (Aust)

01-09-2008 18:35:42




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 Re: PERTRONIX / TIMING in reply to klaus, 01-09-2008 05:41:26  
Jerry. I'm not that smart ... I relied on John (UK) for email advice at the time! :lol:
Is there anything about Fergies that John doesn't know???

My timing case was cracked. On removal there was indications something had been hitting the case from the inside which I assumed was a previous governor weight failure. Had the case welded and replaced the timing chain and crank shaft and cam shaft sprockets. Unfortunately, the replacement crank shaft sprocket needed 20 thou machining out before it would fit the crank shaft and the new timing chain has more "slop" than the original Fergy chain!

The way the cam shaft sprocket determines valve timing, a sloppy timing chain makes precise valve timing very difficult.

My painted timing marks on the crank pulley and timing case are a close approximation to make locating the holes in the block and flywheel much easier. Someone with a Dremel tool should be able to accurately inscribe timing marks on the front of the engine.

Bob in Oz

For ignition timing, dwell angle etc I suggest remove the starter motor and hand crank start. It should be possible to then use a timing light.

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Bob (Aust)

01-09-2008 13:47:10




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 Re: PERTRONIX / TIMING in reply to klaus, 01-09-2008 05:41:26  
Jerry. It can be a bit tricky if the tractor is assembled, but if the fuel tank is off check for the valve rockers rocking free on No 1, or with the starter motor out it is very easy as there is a groove inside the starter motor hole which aligns with "0" on the flywheel.

I have now painted small marks on the front crankshaft pulley and timing cover to help. Not accurate enough for a timing light but accurate enough to get very close to TDC on No 1, so the timing holes in the block and flywheel line up with a little rocking of the engine.

Bob in Oz

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Jerry/MT

01-09-2008 17:23:51




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 Re: PERTRONIX / TIMING in reply to Bob (Aust), 01-09-2008 13:47:10  
Bob,

I sounds like you can only statically time this engine easily. I think your idea about painting the timing marks on is a good one. It allows you to check the running timing and the advance with a timing light. Since the Standard motor has a timing chain, the wear on the chain has a big effect on ignition timing so marking the timing as you have is a very useful thing. You may want to write up the method you used. It would help some of the TEA owners.

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Bob (Aust)

01-09-2008 12:24:30




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 Re: PERTRONIX / TIMING in reply to klaus, 01-09-2008 05:41:26  
Jerry, Klaus has a Standard engine, not Continental. The "peep hole" below the starter is only 1/4 inch diameter. The only way I can see to time a Standard engine with a timing light is with the starter motor out, hand start and align the fly wheel timing marks with the notch inside the starter motor block housing (Difficult to see but it is there near the "0" on the flywheel in this photo.)

Klaus, at top dead center on number 1 cylinder, a 1/4 inch rod pushed through the "peep hole" below the starter motor, will align with a corresponding hole in the fly wheel, as in this photo.

third party image

The Petronix Igniter is the best tractor investment you will ever make! I also have their high voltage coil.

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Jerry/MT

01-09-2008 13:22:20




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 Re: PERTRONIX / TIMING in reply to Bob (Aust), 01-09-2008 12:24:30  
Thanks for the info, Bob. I guess I was rushing and didn"t notice the fact that it is a Standard motor.
So, after you get the #1 cylinder on the compression stroke, do you rotate the engine until the 1/4" rod goes into the hole in the flywheel and then you are at the proper timing mark? If so, that"s a bit tricky.



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klaus

01-09-2008 11:57:59




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 Re: PERTRONIX / TIMING in reply to klaus, 01-09-2008 05:41:26  
Hey, thanks for the advice. I will get on it real soon. It fires up nicely but is running a bit rough and the exhaust is getting almost red hot at idle. I have not tampered with the carb.
Klaus



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Jerry/MT

01-09-2008 09:00:36




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 Re: PERTRONIX / TIMING in reply to klaus, 01-09-2008 05:41:26  
Do you have a timing light? If you do, start it up and time it with a timing light. If you can"t start it, pull the sprk plug out of #1 cylinder(the one nearest the radiator) and holding a thumb over the #1 aprk plug hole, tap the starter to crank the engine over until you feel pressure on your thumb. When you feel the pressure, you are on the compression stroke for the #1 cylinder. Rotate the engine by hand till the timing mark shows up and stop when the flywheel timing mark lines up with the notch on the peep hole below the starter(TO-20/-30). Put a paper clip or a bent wire in the #1 spark plug boot and loosen the distributor so you can rotate it. Turn on the key switch, hold the plug wire near a good ground and rotate the distributor back and forth slowly until you hear the spark snap. At that point you are statically timed. You may have to do this several times to get it right. When you think you have it, carefully tighten down the distributor, replace the spark plug, and try a start. Check with a timing light while runnning and adjust as necessary. Rev the engine and check that the advance system is woking. DO NOT LEAVE THE KEY ON WITH THE POINTS CLOSED FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME OR YOU WILL OVERHEAT AND DAMAGE THE PERTRONIX UNIT.

hope this helps you.

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