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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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Photos oil pan dilemma

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John in MS

12-16-2007 12:17:28




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I posted a message a few days ago about what to do about my oil system, which was damaged at some point and never properly fixed. The weather finally cleared up so I could take some photos. Take a look and let me know if I should just button it back up and do frequent oil changes or if I should try to restore it. Finding the parts could be a major challenge.

Thanks

John

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Jerry/MT

12-16-2007 16:18:22




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 Re: Photos oil pan dilemma in reply to John in MS, 12-16-2007 12:17:28  
Did you clean up th oil pick up and associated plumbing? It looks pretty clean.

As I said previously, I"d put the pan back on and do frequent oil changes, keeping my eyes open for the correct parts. When I assembled ALL the correct parts, then I"d intall the filter system. Looks like who did the changeover soldered everthing together so you should be able to get it apart. I"d really watch the oil pressure carefullyuring operation because if any of that solderd hadware comes apart you"ll lose oil pressure fast.

Just my thoughts on this matter.

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John in MS

12-17-2007 04:01:27




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 Re: Photos oil pan dilemma in reply to Jerry/MT, 12-16-2007 16:18:22  
That is how it looked when I dropped the pan, and, as far as I know, nothing has been done to the tractor for more than 20 years. The parts shown feel like they are very firmly welded in place, so it might be tough getting them out if I can find replacement parts.

But I'm going to take your advice and put it back together for now. It has run fine and strong as is for many years. Given this situation, what weight oil would you recommend?

If anyone out there might have a line on new or used replacement filter parts, I would appreciate the info.

Thanks.

John
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Jerry/MT

12-17-2007 14:00:33




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 Re: Photos oil pan dilemma in reply to John in MS, 12-17-2007 04:01:27  
What"s your warm oil pressure look like at low idle(~400 rpm), John? If it"s > than 15 psi, I would recommend 10W40 as a good all around oil.). If you have poor oil pressure (<15 psi @400rpm at operating temperature), you might want to consider checking the relief valve, the oil pump, and possibly the main bearings because something is tired in your engine. You might want to try some 20W50 oil in that case.

With good oil pressure, you might also consider a diesel rated oil which has a higher detergent content(like Chevron Delo). This would be good for running without a filter. Since you live in the South, 15W40 Delo 400 would probably work well for you. I believe SAE 30 W Delo is also available but like the multi-vis oils over straight weight.I"d use 15W40 in my TO-30 except in winter here in Western Montana it doesn"t work as well as 10W40.)

Keep track of your operating hours. I"d start out with a target of 50 hrs ( 1/2 the recommended interval)for an oil change and check the oil for "dirtiness by wiping the dip stick on a clean white paper towel and seeing how dirty it looks on the paper. Do this check regularly.When it looks black instead of brownish, I"d change it and note the operating hours. I"d check it this way regulary and if , for example, it turns blackish at 40 hours and I checked it last a 30 hrs, I"d change it and then make sure to check it at 35 hours and if was still brownish on the paper towel, I"d change it evry 35 hrs because I know that it was black between 35 and 40 hrs. Of course how hard you work it is going to have an major impact, but you get my line of reasoning. The other way to determine this (and the best way) is to have an oil sample analyzed and use their recommendation.

In the mean time, keep you eyes peeled for a TO-20 engine that someone is parting out to see if you can glom onto a oil filter assembly for a TO-20/TE-20.

Good Luck.
Jerry

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gerard

12-18-2007 12:54:55




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 Re: Photos oil pan dilemma in reply to Jerry/MT, 12-17-2007 14:00:33  
Everytime I see someone recommend high detergent oil for an engine which has poor (or no) filtration, I cringe. Fine, if you want to wear your engine out as quickly as possible. Don"t know how often I have to say this - maybe no-one reads my posts (wouldn"t blame them!) but a detergent oil is designed to hold all the gunk in suspension - to be taken out as it passes through the oil filter. With poor filtration (or none) it simply recirculates like a fine grinding paste. The old non-detergent oils let the gunk settle out in the pan as sludge, whilst the relatively still clean oil continued to circulate.

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Jerry/MT

12-18-2007 21:42:06




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 Re: Photos oil pan dilemma in reply to gerard, 12-18-2007 12:54:55  
Respectfully, I find your "grinding paste" argument a little hard to understand. The particles in suspension are on the order of 5-10 microns in size at the largest and these are only a small fraction of the total particles. That"s ~ 0.0002-0.0004" in diameter. The smallest clearances are 0.002"+/-0.0005 in the main bearings. That"s on order of 10 times larger than the maximum particle size so I don"t see how they can act as "grinding paste". When sludge settles out, it doesn"t just do it in the crankcase. It does it all over the the head and in the valve guides, etc and will eventually plug the oil galleries. By keeping these particles in suspension they are drained away with the oil change. By reducing the oil change interval, you clear the engine of suspended particles before they build up. Not so with non detergent oil. The sludge stays in theengine and accumulates over time to clog passages.

I"ll stand by my recommmendation to always use detergent oil until I see some hard data to the contrary.

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John in MS

12-18-2007 04:10:05




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 Re: Photos oil pan dilemma in reply to Jerry/MT, 12-17-2007 14:00:33  
Thanks, Jerry. As always, your insights and information are very helpful.

John



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