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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum

tea 20 woes... Im Back! miss me?

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corey farnswort

12-05-2007 18:07:05

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ok, so not so long ago you fine folk helped me resolve my "it runs for 20 min then dies problem", after much troubleshooting i found it was a break in the cloth covered aluminum wiring. Once i rewired it she ran beautifully.
now that its cold out however, and need her for plowing the driveway, she wont start at all. here are a few details to the problem: Even though these tractors were originally a pos. earth system, I wired mine neg. earth which is what it was when i bought it and has run for over 100 hrs on. 2)it was converted from the shift activated starter switch to a basic 12 volt solenoid before I got it but once again ran for many hrs with it like it is. 3)Ive replaced all wires,plugs, rotor, cap, generator, control box, on/off switch(last fall), starter and solenoid(2yrs ago),new battery 2 days ago. Here are the symtoms: sometimes all i get is a clicking noise in the solenoid when i push the start button, other times she'll turn over but its very strained and never enough to fire her up (yes, i step on the clutch to dissengage all of that cold oil filled gearing).
Another semi unrelated problem I'm having is my carb. She came with a zenith b-16, b-18 or a b-13 (not sure due to worn numbers) and has run with it, had it rebuilt by a mechanic because it was leaking out of the choke area, and now is leaking again. the leak would go away once it ran but had to turn the gas off when not running to avoid the flooding problem. I know she really requires a zenith z4t2 or replica but dont want to replace it unless I have to. any help with this is much appreciated, my little quad is taking a beating clearing my 200 yard drive way...

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phil(va)

12-07-2007 05:10:59

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Re: tea 20 woes... Im Back! miss me? in reply to corey farnsworth, 12-05-2007 18:07:05

What others said. One thing to add. You can go directly to test the starter itself by using known good 12 volt battery and putting one jumper on the top bolt on the starter and just touching the other jumper to the case of the starter (might have to scrape away enough film to get to the good metal). Out of gear, of course, as others said. Doesn't matter which jumper goes to top post, starter doesn't care. If starter doesn't turn this way, starter needs attention. If it does, one of the other problems mentioned below is probably the cause. This test bypasses potential connection problems with battery, solenoid, and everything else, and is essentially the same as if the starter were on the bench.

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Bob (Aust)

12-06-2007 19:14:59

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Re: tea 20 woes... Im Back! miss me? in reply to corey farnsworth, 12-05-2007 18:07:05

With a gravity fed fuel system, the tank shut off valve should be in the "off" position when the tractor is not in use, otherwise the float chamber needle valve is holding back an 18" to 20" head of fuel pressure.
I have seen fuel shut off and the engine run until the carby is dry. Don't like the idea of a dry carby at all!

In older Zenith 24T2 carbys, the needle valve does wear with time, often apparent by a wear mark around the tapered needle. Replacement is not expensive and often cheaper than the headaches worn needle valves cause.

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gshadel

12-06-2007 11:04:59

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Re: tea 20 woes... Im Back! miss me? in reply to corey farnsworth, 12-05-2007 18:07:05

Corey, you have recieved good feedback so far, a couple minor points to add. If your starter is similar to the TO's, it is grounded thru the mount bolts. If you do the tests as the others have described and decide the starter is your culprit, take out one/two mounting bolts, shine them up & shine the contact area on the starter housing, and re-install as part of checking your commutator & brushes.

Many carbs leak thru as you describe if the fuel shut-off is not closed. The needle valve in the carb just isn't strong enough to resist the slow overfilling of the carb bowl doe to the constant gravitational fuel pressure pressing against the needle valve. Thus the purpose of the fuel shut-off valve. You may.... may be able to reduce that problem by very slightly adjusting (bending)the float mount, but chances are you will not fix it to your satisfaction. Some say the newer rubber tipped needle valves are to blame for this, I don't know myself, but have the same problem. I've tried to adjust the float but the carb will still flood after sitting overnight if I don't close that shut-off valve.

George

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Jerry/MT

12-06-2007 10:09:21

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Re: tea 20 woes... Im Back! miss me? in reply to corey farnsworth, 12-05-2007 18:07:05

That clicking noise of the solenoid with no subsequent rotation of the starter can be caused by corroded battery terminals(should"nt be your problm "cuz your battery is 2 days old UNLESS you didn"t clean the cable terminals), the wrong size battery cables ("But it started before..." Yes but at winter temperature, it takes more current to turn over the engine that"s full of thick cold oil). The cables should be 1/0 copper. There can also be an internal break or corrosion in the cables so check them with you ohm meter or replace them. I"ve seen old solenoids with the big contacts burned out that had high resistance and as one of the other posters said. even "new" solenoids can be bad right out of the box. Bob suggested bypassing the solenoid (MAKING SURE THE TRACTOR IS OUT OF GEAR)with a set of jumper and this gets the solenoid out of the picture so if you still have a problem with this test, as Bob says the starter is bad and probably needs a cleaned up commutator and/or new brushes and/or a new field coils or field d connections. Make sure you do your cold weather starts with the hydraulic pump disconnected to mimize parasite loads on the starter.
With regard to the polarity, the wire from the coil to the distributor needs to go on the coil terminal that matches the sign of the battery ground and IF you have a generator, you need to polarize it to that ground, just as Bob says. You should maintain the correct polarity to maximize the spark energy.
Your carb problem sounds like a poorly set float level, leaking float valve, "hung" float or a loose float valve fitting. The "hung" float can sometimes be released by rapping sharply on the carb fuel bowl with a block of wood. All the other problems require removing and disassembly of the carb.You can also prevent this type of flooding by shutting the tank valve off IF when running your f/a mixture is correct.

Hope this helps you.

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Lance J.

12-05-2007 23:14:37

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Re: tea 20 woes... Im Back! miss me? in reply to corey farnsworth, 12-05-2007 18:07:05

You say you replaced all the wiring. Does that mean that both battery cables are new also? Corrosion likes to hide inside cable sheathing, also over the years the cable can become brittle and develop cracks inside the sheathing. New cables are super cheap and easy to install. If they're not new, I'd go ahead and replace 'em just to be certain. Do like Bob suggests and move your ground point from the dash to one of the starter bolts.

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Bob (Aust)

12-05-2007 21:14:52

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Re: tea 20 woes... Im Back! miss me? in reply to corey farnsworth, 12-05-2007 18:07:05

Make sure transmission is in neutral. Connect a known, good battery by jumper leads direct to the battery terminal and a good earth on the engine.
Does the starter motor turn the engine over OK?

If NO:

Your starter motor possibly needs overhaul.

If YES:

You possibly have a faulty solenoid; or

You possibly still have the battery earth lead connected to the back of the dash panel. Fergy's are notorious for poor earth at the back of the dash. Remove the earth lead, clean the terminal and re-connect to the top starter motor mounting stud.

No problems with Negative Earth,provided:

1. The generator is polarised for negative earth; and

2. The wire from the coil to distributor points is connected to the negative (-) connection on the coil. (Coil positive [+] to ignition switch.)

Don't know that carby. Correct carby for a TEA20 is a Zenith 24T2. If leaking fuel after shut down, try tapping the carby fuel bowl lightly with a spanner. If the fuel leak stops, the fuel bowl needle valve may be sticking open.

If so, clean or replace the fuel bowl needle valve and readjust the float level.

Bob in Oz

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Don Hooks

12-05-2007 19:57:50

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Re: tea 20 woes... Im Back! miss me? in reply to corey farnsworth, 12-05-2007 18:07:05

This is more of a question than an answer but have you verified that the new solenoid is OK? I fought that problem with an old auto and the new solenoid was faulty. I was SURE it was OK because it was new - LOL. Also, my TO30 starter has the field coils soldered to a post and the solder joint had separated from the post and they would pull away from each other when it was cold and while the resulting connection still looked good on my multimeter it couldn't handle much current. Good luck and let us know what you find.

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