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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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Stellite Exhaust valves

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Hal Hadaller

11-14-2007 19:45:01




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Stellite exhaust valves for the Z129 engine are available. But how does one install these? No rotators are needed on Stellite valves as they are much more resistant to wear. Does one just use the existing non-working rotator and locks to secure the valve. These valves are flat on the end with no hole in them like the standard valves such that a lash cap should not be required. My old rocker arm assembly had imprints of the exhaust valve stem holes as previous work at one time had left out the lash caps. The stellite valves have a tapered slot where the lock engages compared to just a slit. I don't understand that unless there is some sort of seal that goes on the tapered slot.

Hal

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JerryCPP(WA)

11-16-2007 06:33:26




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 Re: Stellite Exhaust valves in reply to Hal Hadaller, 11-14-2007 19:45:01  
The word given to our machine shop by the manufacturers when leaded gas fist went away was NOT to use rotators on valves anymore, as there was no lead to lubricate the valve/seat interface, and that would cause wear on both. From what I've read lately, it seem true rotators are pretty much a thing of the past, with "free valve" assemblies taking thier place. Bottom line - stellite is better in all conditions, with or without rotators or free valve retainers.

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Hal Hadaller

11-16-2007 07:11:00




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 Re: Stellite Exhaust valves in reply to JerryCPP(WA), 11-16-2007 06:33:26  
I have to agree here on this. Wish I could find some retainers that would fit the springs. Will use my rotators as they are. When they quit working, it won't make any difference. With the stellite exhaust valves, I won't have to worry about not having any lash caps.



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Lance J.

11-15-2007 13:21:01




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 Re: Stellite Exhaust valves in reply to Hal Hadaller, 11-14-2007 19:45:01  
Hey gents, all this talk about exhaust valves has got me thinking about good ol" leaded gas. I remember reading in some old automotive books about the reason tetraethyl lead was added to fuel. They said that lead was added because it formed a coating on the valves which prevented wear and burning. These same old publications recommended that in the event that leaded gas was not available, to use lead substitute. They stated that if hardened valve seats were installed in the heads, and the compression ratio was not too high, that unleaded could be used without additives.

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Hal Hadaller

11-15-2007 16:33:35




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 Re: Stellite Exhaust valves in reply to Lance J., 11-15-2007 13:21:01  
Compression ratio on these tractors are just a bit over 6:1 Really low. One could run the old 63 octane or whatever it was back then. I build and fly old airplanes and use of lead in the little Contintenal 4 cylinder opposing engine cause valves to stick quite badly; by coating lead deposits on the stems and in the guides. One solution was to change the angle of the valve grind to something much more shallow to permit more air to flow onto the stems. Recommendations when using no-lead autofuel is to run at least one tank in ten of 100 low lead to help the valves. This goes with what is being said in this thread.

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Dean

11-15-2007 14:42:33




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 Re: Stellite Exhaust valves in reply to Lance J., 11-15-2007 13:21:01  
Lance:

Actually, the use of tetraethyl lead in gasoline was pioneered by GM to control detonation so that higher compression/performance automotive engines could be produced and sold.

Though its use does provide a "cushioning effect" on the valves and seats reducing valve seat regression, this phenomenon was not discovered until the federal government, in its infinite wisdom, legislated its use illegal.

Dean

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Jerry/MT

11-14-2007 20:44:33




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 Re: Stellite Exhaust valves in reply to Hal Hadaller, 11-14-2007 19:45:01  
No reason not to use rotators on that stellite valve. I think the original valves with rotators used on the TO-30 and late model TO-20"s were made with some thing called "special X.C.R. alloy". I don"t know what that is relative to stellite but it must be some type of high temperature material. One of the purposes of the rotators was to help clean the seats so that full contact with the cooler valve seat was made because that helps cool the valve and prevent burning. Even if stellite is better than X.C.R.alloy, I"d still use the rotators. Your $"s, your call.

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Hal Hadaller

11-15-2007 07:38:56




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 Re: Stellite Exhaust valves in reply to Jerry/MT, 11-14-2007 20:44:33  
I have tried to repair my rotators with maybe some success by replacing the little springs. About all the springs were broken or squeezed together. Some of the balls have flat spots and the squeezing washers have lots of wear on them.

It is my understanding that with the hard stellite, rotating the valve is not all that important and will extend the life over the older material, if not rotating. I imagine that most of the old Fergusons have rotators that are not working. There just does't seem to be that much concern. My rotators work now after repair but not sure for how long. One can get a valve kit with new rotator for around $200. I retrospect, I probably should have gone that route. But I found these new stellites for $20 for the 4 of them.

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Jerry/MT

11-15-2007 11:29:33




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 Re: Stellite Exhaust valves in reply to Hal Hadaller, 11-15-2007 07:38:56  
As I stated, the Stellite is a high temperture alloy and therefore is resisitant to oxidation at high temperatures which is what I think may cause valves to burn up. Whether Stellite is better than "special X.C.R. alloy" I can"t say.

My point is that it is crucial to valve cooling that the valve seats cleanly on the valve seat to transfer heat from the hot valve to the cooler seat. If carbon or ash get on the seat, then the heat transfer is reduced and the valve runs hotter. The rotators prevent the deposit build up on the valve seat and which then allows better metal to metal contact, which helps keep the valve cooler.

I think you did the right thing going to Stellite valves and probably for your application that"s fine. ( Heck uva" bargain at $5 per valve!) I had my head redone in 1996 and then the rotators were like $15 a piece. If I was doing the job you are doing, being a "belt and suspenders" type guy, I"d put new rotators on.

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Hal Hadaller

11-15-2007 16:34:30




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 Re: Stellite Exhaust valves in reply to Jerry/MT, 11-15-2007 11:29:33  
Rotators are about $100 for 4 of them the last I heard from someone. Do you have a good source for these?



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Jerry/MT

11-15-2007 18:42:42




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 Re: Stellite Exhaust valves in reply to Hal Hadaller, 11-15-2007 16:34:30  
I"m sorry I don"t have a source for them. I lived in the Seattle area at the time I had the head rebuilt. You can try www.montesequipment.com .They are a source of parts for these old Continental engines so they may have them or point you at someone who does.



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