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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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Restoration Project?

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Supercub

11-03-2007 05:40:16




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Forgive some dumb questions, I havn't been here before.

Clambering around in an old barn, belonging to a relation, I found the tractor shown in the attached pictures. I took them because it was too dark to see anything.

It has certainly not run in the last 24 years and probably a couple of years longer. The starter motor is off, but I suspect it is otherwise pretty much all there. At a guess it is perhaps 50 years old, but perhaps someone knows?

I have several questions:

1. Would I be mad to consider restoring it? It does have more than a little rust as you can see! I am moderatly mechanical. I build aeroplanes for a hobby normally, but have no restoration experience.

2. Is there anything like a guide I can find on the net as to how to approach the task?

3. I have no idea of its value now, cost of restoration, its value once restored, if done well?

4. Are the parts I would need typically available?

5. Can anyone identify it? Make, it says Ferguson, Model, year etc.

6. If restored what would I run it on?

Any pointers would be a great help. Thanks, Steve.

PS I have put some pictures here. For more detail, double click them. http://gikontractor.blogspot.com/

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Bob (Aust)

11-07-2007 14:07:36




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 Re: Restoration Project? in reply to Supercub, 11-03-2007 05:40:16  
Never flew a Cub but when I learned to fly over 40 years ago I started on a DHC1 Chippie at � 4/10/0 per hour dual (now Aus$9 per hour) and moved to the Piper Tri Pacer for a short period. I think dual instruction is now around Aus$180 per hour - a 2,000% increase!

I've owned eight or nine aircraft over the years, from a C150 to Beech 58 Baron and Cessna 402.

Which brings me to the point of my post. A personal aeroplane is a hole in the atmosphere in which one burns $100 bills. You are well conditioned to excessive investment in a few hours of pleasure!!

You will find the Fergy restoration many hours of pleasure for an investment much less than the cost of maintenance on the Cub! third party image third party image

I looked at your web site - nice Cub! You mention slope - I worked for an airline in PNG for 20 years and we had strips up to 16% slope! Here is a strip just south of where I lived in PNG which was serviced by a few crazy missionaries:

third party image

Flown over it - no way I'd ever go there!!!

My airline days are gone, kids carry on the profession. My son is joining Qantas on Dash 8s, daughter is a Flight Attendant with Continental in the USA.
You will get enjoyment out of the Fergy - at a lot less cost than the Cub!!!

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Supercub

11-11-2007 02:29:23




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 Re: Restoration Project? in reply to Bob (Aust), 11-07-2007 14:07:36  
Bob, could we possibly have a conversation (about this particular tractor) outside this board? If thats OK please email me on [email protected].

Thanks, Steve.



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Bob (Aust)

11-06-2007 23:43:52




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 Re: Restoration Project? in reply to Supercub, 11-03-2007 05:40:16  
Supercub (I assume that is a PA-18 Supercub?).
Front tyres around $60 each with tubes. Rear tyres around $220 each with tubes.

You may find the present tyres still hold air - only recently I replaced a front tyre on my TEA20 which was on the tractor and old when I bought it 25 years ago.

The engine won't necessarily be seized, although the open valves probably won't seal. But I've seen worse come back to life.

But you are right - if you cost your labour into the restoration you will over capitalise the tractor and will never recover your parts and labour cost. Indeed, you will be lucky to recover parts costs, depending how far you go with the restoration.

Fergies are a very rewarding labour of love, by a select few who probably should have more sense!third party image

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Supercub

11-07-2007 09:16:37




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 Re: Restoration Project? in reply to Bob (Aust), 11-06-2007 23:43:52  
Bob, that was a very helpful reply. No, I would only value my time at zero, because I would enjoy doing it. At $220 in the USA tyres & tubes are much less than I would expect. It will be a while before I start but I think I might just give it a go. At least I will explore to see just how bad things are. If I get the body work off I think perhaps the scale of what is needed will become a whole lot easier to understand.

I will get myself a manual and let oyu know what the data plate story is.

And yes, its a PA18. 40 this year, but its had rather more love care and attention. Its at the URLs below.

Thanks.

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greenbank

11-06-2007 14:37:44




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 Re: Restoration Project? in reply to Supercub, 11-03-2007 05:40:16  
Restoration is a money-losing game, no matter how you slice it, unless you have something so rare that collectors want it for their museums.

Even if you add up the cost of all the parts and supplies and come out less than you could sell the tractor for, you've still lost your time--probably the most valuable asset you have. Many professionals work for $50, $60, $100, $120 an hour in their chosen fields. It doesn't take long at those rates before even on a time basis you have more in the tractor than it is worth.

The best advice on restoration I can give is to forget the money, completely. If you can afford it and have a desire to work on it, go for it. If you can't afford it, obviously the answer is pretty simple.

Restoration is about enjoying the process. Yeah, sometimes you can save money if you value your time at $0, but in almost every case if your goal is to have a nice old tractor and you don't actually enjoy working on them, you'd be money way ahead of the game buying someone else's completed project.

People never do this sort of worrying about whether they can recoup their "losses" when they're golfing, attending concerts or going on a vacation. Very very few things with wheels on them are "investments." It makes life a lot simpler if you don't worry about them as such. third party image

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Supercub

11-06-2007 06:10:07




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 Re: Restoration Project? in reply to Supercub, 11-03-2007 05:40:16  
John - price will be zero since it belongs to mother-in-law, however that is not my concern. The first problem I see is the chances of the tires holding air I wold have thought are zero after say 30 years. I have no idea of the cost of the tires, or perhaps more important the cost of getting them installed, but until it is on some wheels it is going to be hard to move.

The idea that the engine will rotate after such a period I would have thought would be minimal. It is just sitting in a drafty barn 5 miles from the sea where it was last shut down probably in the late '70s.

My concern is that before I start restoring it on little more than the tires alone, I will have spent more than it is worth restored. Perhaps I should view it that the costs are irrelevant, however I find that hard to do.

Please dont think me negative, I am just trying to get a handle on how things might work out, hence my origional post.

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johnand cindy

11-05-2007 08:53:50




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 Re: Restoration Project? in reply to Supercub, 11-03-2007 05:40:16  
If its a good price, BUY it load it up and haul it home as fast as you can. Check and see if the engine is free try to turn the fan by hand. If it is try a splash of gas give it a pull with your tow vehicle pop the clutch the old girl may suprise you and start. This is the start of fun you will become a tractor junkie like us I really enjoy working on our Ferguson its a great tractor. The guys here are big helps many smart people. Have fun, God Bless, John

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Bob (Aust)

11-04-2007 15:39:20




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 Re: Restoration Project? in reply to Supercub, 11-03-2007 05:40:16  
John.
The last photo intrigues me. What is attached to or under the PTO and seems to line up with attachments under the mud guard mounting bolts, each side?

The extra bolts at the bottom of the axle bugle housings indicate a later model TEA20.



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Bob (Aust)

11-04-2007 15:26:58




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 Re: Restoration Project? in reply to Supercub, 11-03-2007 05:40:16  
Richard. Now you're confusing me!

There is no "TE30", although there is a TO30 made in the USA. I'm in Australia; I have never seen a TE20 (Continental engine, built in the UK) and never seen a TO20 or TO30 (Continental engine, built in the USA) as neither were ever imported into Australia. Only the TEA/TED/TEF20 etc series ever came to Australia.

All late model TEA20's had the air inlet screen through the dash panel. (I think early TE20s and maybe early 6 volt TEA20s did not? John (UK) would know). In the photo, the hole in the dash panel is usually blanked off but an amp meter could be installed.

Note sloping oil filter (just visible under the coil), indicating later model Standard engine.

The tractor still has the starter handle, behind the gearbox to diff flange.

I have not seen that embossed "Ferguson" in the bonnet side panels before. The tractor appears to have had factory side lights at some stage.

The plug leads appear to be connected in the correct order, but 90 degrees out in the distributor cap. I'm intrigued by the second lead (downwards) from the distributor - is that a condenser on the end of the lead???

Carby is also missing - it needs a Zenith 24T2 carby. New after market carbys are available but they are very expensive (around US$350).

Something has been mounted on the front axle - a front bumper bar perhaps? Strange looking PTO - something is mounted on or under the PTO, maybe a tow bar???

There is a plate on the dash panel, under the oil gauge, which I am not familiar with? I would be very interested to know what is on that plate.

The tractor appears to be in surprisingly good condition - the bonnet is very straight. Dash panel appears to have rusted through and some of those bolts are going to be real fun to undo!!!

Just my observations..... ...

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Richard L

11-04-2007 14:40:43




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 Re: Restoration Project? in reply to Supercub, 11-03-2007 05:40:16  
I am also new to this restoration process in fact I am looking for my 1st one to buy and I wish you was a lot closer to me as I would try to buy it from you.

BOB (AUST). Being new I have a question. When I first saw the picture of the dash and noticed the air screen I automatically thought it had to be a TE 30. I was under the impression the air screens on the dash showed that was a TO or TE 30. Can you explain where I am thinking wrong. I really enjoy reading these messages as I like to think I am learning something. Thanks everyone. Richard L

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Jeff-oh

11-05-2007 11:53:01




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 Re: Restoration Project? in reply to Richard L, 11-04-2007 14:40:43  
As bob said no such beastie as a TE-30. It is a TEA-20.

The TE-20's and TO-20's do not have a dash air screen. Both are strictly under hood.

Jeff



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Supercub

11-04-2007 02:08:09




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 Re: Restoration Project? in reply to Supercub, 11-03-2007 05:40:16  
Thanks for the replies and info.

I am in the UK, but it is in mainland Europe, so it will be a while before I am back there to look at the data plate. At least I now know where to look in the dark. It is good to hear that the UK is a good spares location.

Presumably the cost of tyres/tubes will be high assuming it needs them. Presumably after nearly 30 years standing they will have to be replaced?

I suspect, as you say, the rest of the work will just be graft plus seals and rings etc., provided the inside of the engine is not a complete mess.

It will be a while before i have a chance to investigate further. At least I have found it.

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MurrayE

11-03-2007 11:55:48




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 Re: Restoration Project? in reply to Supercub, 11-03-2007 05:40:16  
Good Luck on your discovery. I just purchased one quite similar to the one in your picture for $300.00. Lot's of work ahead, you will enjoy, and requires a fair amount of patience. You can and will make progress. Mine was sitting for about 15 years, it has now been painted and beginning to take a different look and I have taken quite a liking to this TO20, although lot's of work ahead. Cheers, Murray

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Ken Crisman

11-03-2007 07:48:35




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 Re: Restoration Project? in reply to Supercub, 11-03-2007 05:40:16  
Man I'd grab it & bring it back to life . It sure looks like a great project to me . Please rescue it or share it with someone who will . God bless, Ken



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Bob (Aust)

11-03-2007 06:22:35




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 Re: Restoration Project? in reply to Supercub, 11-03-2007 05:40:16  
Incidentally, it runs on normal unleaded gasoline - but you may find the fuel tank is rusted out.



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Bob (Aust)

11-03-2007 06:19:57




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 Re: Restoration Project? in reply to Supercub, 11-03-2007 05:40:16  
It is a Ferguson, from the engine, it looks like a Ferguson TEA20 with Standard Motor Co engine.

What is the serial number from the plate in front of the steering wheel?? What is the engine number, located on the engine block between the distributor and coil? Post the numbers here and we can give you year of manufacture, engine size - horse power etc.

It actually looks in reasonable condition - as least the sheet metal is straight but will probably need sand blasting. You may be lucky - there may be very little wrong with it. A new starter motor will cost you around UK Pound 80.

Hard to put a value on it, very much depending on condition or what is wrong with it. Maybe UKL200 to UKL500??? Research Ferguson TEA20 prices on EBay UK.

As it appears you are in Holland, all the parts you may need are easily available from the UK at very reasonable prices. You will need to first purchase a workshop manual.

There are many here that can help you. I have also restored my TEA20 - but I am not an expert!

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