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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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Rebuild Engine (TO-30)

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Hal Hadaller

10-21-2007 19:14:47




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Have been busy restoring a 1952 TO30. Have it stripped down to the point that only an engine remains in front of the back wheels and castings. The engine was reported to smoke but hasn't been used for some time. I cleaned the plugs and ran it for one minute until the carb flooded (have since rebuilt carb). Anyway. pulling the head off etc., the #1 plug was black and that piston wobbles in the rings as if the rings are stuck or collapsed. The other plugs and pistons look fine. All Cylinder walls are smooth with absolutely no ridge. Engine has been rebuilt at some time past as it has 3 3/8" cylinders/pistons and mic roughly at 3.375". Probably not many hours ago as the pistons tops are completely clean with no carbon deposits or blackening at all. I haven't removed any of the valves yet but filling the intake ports with water, #2 has a leaky valve. I have mind to just rework the head, and replace the rings on #1 piston. There is no evidence of wear or ridge in the cylinders. I only plan for this tractor as show and parade with only minor light work if any. Doing all the work myself makes a cheap repair job - gaskets, 1 set of rings for 1 piston, and maybe $55 for a new valve/guide/spring kit.

I see many folks opting for complete, expensive rebuilds which is more that I am planning. I am up in the years and don't need an engine that will outlast me or my wife. But I will know much more on this engine this week when I pull the pan. These are extremely heavy engines so if not abused, should nearly last a lifetime. But one never knows how the tractor was used or treated.

BTW has anyone have a leftover set of rings for one 3 3/8" piston?

Hal

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gshadel

10-22-2007 10:54:10




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 Re: Rebuild Engine (TO-30) in reply to Hal Hadaller, 10-21-2007 19:14:47  
Hal, your plan sounds just fine. I'm one of those folks that started as a ring job & ended-up replacing all the sleeves/pistons/rings. I ran into a cracked piston, and 2 other pistons that had broken rings, the rings tore-up the softer aluminum piston grooves real bad. Sounds like you know what your doing, drive on!

George



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Jim in OH

10-22-2007 06:46:35




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 Re: Rebuild Engine (TO-30) in reply to Hal Hadaller, 10-21-2007 19:14:47  
Sounds good to me.. If using the old cylinder, make sure there is absolutely no ridge (or the top ring will break) and also, remove the glaze (with a cylinder hone) or the rings may not seal.. or for about $20 you can get a new cylinder liner with seals (cheaper than buying the ridge reamer and/or cylinder hone if you don't have one)



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Hal Hadaller

10-22-2007 11:11:34




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 Re: Rebuild Engine (TO-30) in reply to Jim in OH, 10-22-2007 06:46:35  
I have a cylinder stone deglazer. I use it some on airplane engines that I work on for friends and my own. There is absolutely now ridge. I disassembled the head today. Have on bad exhaust valve seat and hopefully a shop downtown can restore it. Also the same valve had a broke spring. All the other valves look good with NO wear on the surfaces and seats, but will install a new valve/spring/guides kit. All evidence is that this engine sat more that it was used. The rocker assembly is rather stubborn in getting things apart. Have it soaking so then maybe the supports will slip off the arms. This is not a high performance engine so tolerate less than perfection. Thanks.

Hal

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Hal Hadaller

10-22-2007 19:47:38




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 Re: Rebuild Engine (TO-30) in reply to Hal Hadaller, 10-22-2007 11:11:34  
Things sure went south fast today. Started to remove the #1 piston and when I got on the rod jounals, ALL of them were loose - just plain worn out with not much bearing left. Looks like someone ran it to the END. So am regrouping to see what the best way to approach this. None of the measurements seem to fall into anything meaningful. On #1 I get 3.360" bore 3/4" down from the top of the cylinder. Should have either 3 1/4 or 3 3/8 (3.375)Hope to remember to bring my inside mic home tomorrow and get a better measurement. The #1 rod journal came out at 1.932". Manual shows 1.9365" minimum so am about 4.5 thousandths sloppy. The book shows 2.5 thou max for oil clearance. The rod journals feel smooth so about all the wear seems to be in the rod bearings. May have been a cheap set. There really wasn"t much left of the inserts and some fell out on removing the caps. A ring on #3 was broken fell out on removal of the piston. Got dark so did not get #4 out.

I took the head to a local shop as the #2 exhaust seat was kind of bad. The shop is going to put in exhaust inserts for me as soon as I get my valve kit that I ordered to day. They need the new guide installed to do that properly. The intake seats were as new so just a touch up there. So that will take care of the head.

1952 up to 2007 is 55 years so guess I should not complain. No evidence of water leaks so that is a plus. Worse is that I may yet be pulling the block of the tractor.

Hal

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Hal Hadaller

10-23-2007 16:19:14




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 Re: Rebuild Engine (TO-30) in reply to Hal Hadaller, 10-22-2007 19:47:38  
To continue the Z129 engine SAGA, things are getting no better. Turning out to be major problems. Now the crankshaft has to come out and hopefully, it can be reground. Bearings are available up to 0.040" so that is quite a bit of grinding but things could be nip and tuck at that. Rod journals are also out of round so that doesn't help. Took out #4 piston today and that rod jounal was dry and put deposist on the crank. Most of the bearing insert is left compared to the other cylinders so may not be a show stopper. Seems that someone may have previously overhauled with an out-of-round crankshaft as the rod bearing were pounded paper thin. The sleeves have absolutely no wear so overhaul was quite recent in time. Pulling the engine tomorrow. Anyone know what the block and crankshaft weigh when I remove it off the rest of the tractor?

I got the valves/springs/guides ordered today. Seems that one is suppose to use a guide tool and push the old guides out with the new guide. The old guides appear to have a flange on them so it must mean the replacement guide does not.


There are lots of places to get parts and prices vary 2 to 1 or more. The internet makes shopping time consuming. And then one has to figure in the shipping which varies a lot from place to place. Locally getting parts seem out of the question and I am sure the prices would be also. So cost is fast going over $500 and maybe not too much more, if I am lucky. Sleeves, Pistons, & rods are good, so that is a plus. Fortunately I have a economical machine shop here.

Hal

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gshadel

10-24-2007 11:01:50




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 Re: Rebuild Engine (TO-30) in reply to Hal Hadaller, 10-23-2007 16:19:14  
Hal,
Your ring job is starting to sound like a rebuild. I noted on your prev. post you measured the sleeve ~3/4 inch down. The sleeves are tapered, you should measure the ID ~1/2 way down. The rod bearings just sit in the caps & have a couple notches to hold them in place, they probably will just fall off on removal. Sounds like your rod bearings are shot. Check your rear crank bearing when you drop the crank, sounds like your #4 rod was oil starved, I think that oil is coming from your rear crank bearing. If your rear bearing is shot, you may be losing pressure and starving that piston. I don't recall the exact weight of the engine without the head/pistons, it's still darn heavy, with the crank & clutch, I'm thinking your a bit over 300 pounds, I think a totally stripped block is ~200 pounds. Your machine shop will have no trouble pressing your valve guides, they do use a mandrel to prevent misshaping the guides and press the old guide thru the bottom of the head and use the new guide to push it thru. Sounds like you already realize prices vary, so shop around, don't hesitate to check your local Agco or Ford New Holland tractor dealers for these parts. Both dealers are Tisco distributors, which carries most all the parts you need & will save you shipping. If you go to a Ford dealer, make sure you tell them to look in their Tisco catalog, or talk to the old timer sitting at the back with a cup of coffee, not the new kid at the counter. Otherwise they may tell you "we can't get that". I found my local Agco dealer actually had the lowest prices on several of my rebuild components because they covered shipping.
You might want to start a new post for other questions & updates, this posts is getting buried down at the bottom of the page now with newer posts on top.

George

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