Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Attention Forum Users: On the 28th of December 2023 at 9:00am Central Time, we will be taking the forums down for maintenance while we prepare the new forums for your use. Please click here for more information.

Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
:

to 30 still wont start

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
delane

10-15-2007 19:15:39




Report to Moderator

i tryed everything mark from the fort and jerry/mt suggested. i removed all plugs and rotated engine till i felt air and rotated engine further till on 6 degree mark. #1 cylinder was pretty much tdc. i was told to line rotor up with #1 distributer port and points should start to open. its not working out that way. i was told to use paper clip and move distributer cap back and forth till i get a snap from #1 plug wire. did that and tightened distributer. i am getting great spark off each plug wire but tractor still acts like its not firing right and wont start. could i have an internal problem with engine? could the ground be the problem? i was told to take ground off daSH and move it to starter ground but have not done that yet. i even tryed starting fluid but didnt help. i am getting great spark from each plug so why isnt it starting? i rough timed it like i was told. any more suggestions for me would be appreciated. i have a number 502 champion plugs .025 gap points are at .o22 i am just really getting frustrated especially since it ran for like 3 days in a row great and than all these problems started. should i be able to rotate engine by grabbing tha fan blade and turning with all the plugs in cylinders? please help me

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
gshadel

10-16-2007 09:26:11




Report to Moderator
 Re: to 30 still wont start in reply to delane, 10-15-2007 19:15:39  
When you check your firing order don't forget the distributor turns counter clockwise, which is counter-intuitive. There is also a difference between a spark, and a good spark. I've seen my TO not run even with spark, if the spark is a yellow/orange cold spark. You want a blue/white fat spark. If that's what you have then probably is a fuel problem. If the carb fuel bowl is overfilled, as would happen if left sitting for a long time with the gas shut-off open, the gas will not be able to vaporize & your engine will act like it is getting starved for fuel & not start. Do the fuel flow test that Jerry describes, then replace the carb drain plug, open your gas shutoff & try to start right away.

I also doubt you have a serious internal engine problem. I am unable to turn my engine by hand with the fan blade since my rebuild, but I used to be able to turn it by hand before the rebuild, but it was never.... easy. If you are in doubt on the engine integrity, checking compression in each cylinder is a quick way to verify the basic engine function is sound. You should see >60 psi on a cold engine that is turned by the starter, with the throttle wide open.

George

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Chuck (CA)

10-16-2007 06:52:12




Report to Moderator
 Re: to 30 still wont start in reply to delane, 10-15-2007 19:15:39  
"i was told to line rotor up with #1 distributer port and points should start to open. its not working out that way."
To me that"s a clue that it"s a timing problem. Going back through your posts, the backfiring through the carb is indicative to being out of time. Possibly 180 degrees. Very common to do when you replace the distributor. BUT, then it ran great for three days. Very strange.
Now, does it sound like it wants to fire?
Could the cam have jumped timing?

Back to basics: If you have fuel, spark, and air it should fire, assuming the timing is somewhat close. You sprayed ether down the carb (fuel), you have a good spark, and of course there"s air. Puzzling.
You might want to do a compression check:
Remove all spark plugs, disconnect the coil wire, open throttle all the way and run your compreession check. See what the numbers are. But, like Jerry said, you don"t just lose compression.
Sorry for the ramble, delane, just throwing stuff out there.
Please keep us posted on your findings.

Chuck

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
mark from the fort

10-16-2007 07:39:38




Report to Moderator
 Re: to 30 still wont start in reply to Chuck (CA), 10-16-2007 06:52:12  
I agree with Jerry.
If you got spark, thats a big plus.
Along with other fuel supply inputs: Make sure you have a couple of gallons of gas in tank. also, if you have an original fuel shut off--make sure that it is opened ALL the way. These actually have 2 tubes that allow gas into fuel line-one taller than other--the taller one is used while plenty of gas is in tank. The other is a neat feature. When gas is lower than tall tube, tractor dies from "out of gas". However, by opening the know the whole way out, this allow lower tube to open and use remaining gas to run tractor and get your butt home. Now, that said. these tubes get full of CRAP>
Get a large fullen and 1 or 2 5 gallon buckets (depending on how much gas is in tank) and place funnel under fuel shut off. carefully unscrew shutoff out of bottom of tank.....gas will rush out like crazy, use funnel to divert into buckets--have second bucket right there as you will be surprised how much, and how quickly the gas comes out.
I take a small drill bit and BY HAND twist into both tubes and pull out..you could very easily have a bunch of crap in flutes of bit. I usually take very very low compressed air and shoot into tubes from bottom side.
Even on my best fergies, I have this issure once per year.
Dont forget the "secre screen" Jerry mentioned. It is actully part of the 90 degree elbow that takes fuel line into carb. Carefully disconnect fuel line and back out elbow. Again, very slight compressed air from the outside will shoot crap out of screen.
All the above is kind of a pain to do, so perform the "peeing rock" test first to see if you fuel runs out bottom of carb strongly and for as long as you leave shut off open. One last thought, (and this shouldnt affect start up, but would effect long term running) make sure you have a vented gas cap....air must enter tank as fuel is removed.
lack of air can stop fuel flow.
Make sure that when you are on your 6 degree mark that the piston is near the top of cylinder...this can be done by removing spark plug (#1) and looking inside with flashlight, OR placing small bent wire. Should feel or see piston fairly close to hole. If not, you may be 180 degree off. If you are getting a strong spark at plugs, the ground is fine for now. As stated, turn both large and small screws on carb all the way IN> then back the large on out 1 and 1/8 turn out.--back the small one out 3/4 of a turn. This should be close enough to start and run.
If this doesn't work, it could be an issue with timing chain. Hope not.
Keep us informed, we'll get her.
P.S. Before you flip your lid----- -try to think of all the fun you'll have taking her for a ride all by yourself..
We already know this feeling,,,,thats why we are here. mark

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Griz

10-16-2007 04:18:33




Report to Moderator
 Re: to 30 still wont start in reply to delane, 10-15-2007 19:15:39  
I would try some starter fluid down the carb. If it fires and dies you've got a fuel problem.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Jerry/MT

10-15-2007 19:41:18




Report to Moderator
 Re: to 30 still wont start in reply to delane, 10-15-2007 19:15:39  
Before you consider internal engine problems lets try and make sure you have fire at the right time and the correct fuel/air ratio. If the tractor ran well before, it would not have suddenly developed poor compression or burned valves!

It sounds like you have a good spark and you have it timed properly. Do you have the correct firing order? 1-3-4-2.

If that"s correct, then you need to make sure that you"re getting fuel. Make sure that your carb power jet is set at 1-1-/8 turns out from full closed and the idle jet is 3/4 turn out from full closed. Now try a start. and use the choke. If it doen"t start, lets make sure you are getting fuel.

Turn the tank valve full open and holding a container under the carb, remove the big plug. You should have a gush of fuel like a cow peein" on a flat rock. If you don"t, you have a restriction in the fuwl delivery. Rap the carb with a block of wood. Sometimes the float hangs a a sharp rap will make it drop. Checxk the "secret filter" in the fuel inlet elbow at the carb. If that"s clear, then check the dediment bowl and the little filter in the top of that. You make have to remove the tank valve because some of them have a screen o to and that maybe plugged.
Be patient and systematically make these checks. You have to be pretty close to finding the problem now.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
delane

10-16-2007 03:45:45




Report to Moderator
 Re: to 30 still wont start in reply to Jerry/MT, 10-15-2007 19:41:18  
thanks for the advice jerry. i will try this. i just dont undestand what is going on.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy