Other lives of a Z129?

Is anyone familiar enough with the history of the Z129 engine to tell me what other uses it may have had in its heyday as a powerplant? I ask this because when I took my engine to the rebuilder I didn’t leave my oil pan with them, but it came back with one fitted to it. And it’s nothing like the original. It is cast iron, just like the block, and quite a bit larger than the original. The drain hole is on the side. On the pulley end there are a pair of holes machined through a casting that look to be suitable as mounts for a generator or maybe a pump. On the TO30 tractors, the bottom of the bell housing is covered by a sheet metal plate to protect the flywheel. But on this oil pan, the plate is cast as part of the pan. On the bottom the casting number reads in part “Z129B.” So I"m thinking these engines must have had another use as a stationary power plant. I’d just kind of like to know what it was. With fairly constant load and stable operating temperature these engines could probably run forever.

I don’t have it installed on my tractor yet, but if the additional size and features on this pan don’t interfere with the re-assembly I’ll probably just leave it on there. The heft of that pan can’t help but add a structural rigidity to the block that we all know it sorely needs. I’d post some pictures if I could just figure out how to do it.

By the way, I told the guys at the rebuilder that it wasn’t my pan (and the valve cover they put on it too) but they just treated it as a freebie. It made me feel so much better about the four month wait!

Bill

Dan

I think I"ve figgered out how to post photos, and I have one of this pan that I"ll try to post under a new heading a little later. What is the casting number on your pan?

The company produced engines for various independent manufactures of automobiles, tractors, and stationary equipment (i.e. pumps generators machinery drives) from the 1920s through the 1960s. The company had two major production plants located in Michigan, in the cities of Muskegon and Detroit(Detroit plant closed in 1965). Continental Motors also produced Continental branded automobiles in 1932/1933 based upon the 1931 De Vaux, a product of the De Vaux Motors Corporations of Oakland, California, which had been using body dies left over from the former Durant produced by Durant Motors until 1930.

Restored Continental AV-1790-5B tank engine at the American Armored Foundation Tank Museum in Danville, Virginia. Although Continental is most well known for its light aviation engines, they were also contracted to produce the air-cooled V12 "AV-1790-5B" gasoline engine for the U.S. Army's M47 Patton tank and the diesel AVDS-1790-2A and its derivatives for the M48 Patton and M60 series main battle tanks."

As we don't have Continental engine Ferguson tractors in Australia, the only Continental engines I have seen was a four cylinder gasoline engine in a boat I owned 35 years ago and the Continental air cooled, opposed aircraft engines used in aircraft. Until recent years, all Cessna aircraft from the single engine Cessna 150 to the twin engine Cessna 310, 402 and 414 were all fitted with Continental engines.

Continantal aircraft engines were reliable but required care in use as they tended to be susceptible to cylinder cracking, particularly turbo charged engines.

My preference in aircraft engines are Continantal's competitor, Lycoming, which engines tend to be more robust - although that is a personal opinion.

Bert Rutan's 1986 Voyager that flew around the world non stop was powered by a liquid cooled version of Continental's IO-240 engine.

Coming back to your engine - some years ago I saw an aircraft ground unit fitted with an overhead valve four cylinder in line Continental engine but it appeared to be more an industrial construction and application. Perhaps the parts you acquired came off an industrial engine or one of the automotive applications.

The following vehicles had Continental engines:

Checker Cab (pre-1965) Durant Motors (including Durant, Flint and Star brand cars) Jeep (during World War II) Kaiser-Frazer Corporation (including Allstate, Frazer, Henry J, Kaiser and post-1953 Willys brand cars) Keller Velie Willys Abbott-Detroit

• Wikipedia: Continental Motors

Thank you for the Wikipedia abstract. I am familiar with Continental engines and their long history as industrial machinery, both from the viewpoint of an auto and truck parts family and as a pilot. Continental aircraft engines have their own long history as a cantankerous and fragile powerplant that I agree must be operated much more carefully than the Lycoming equivalent. During the time I was flying those engines in the 1980’s, cracked cases (blocks) in the large turbocharged motors were a major problem throughout the production run and in our fleet as well. Somewhere in a field near Oroville California there is a complete cylinder/piston/rod assembly from one of our Bonanzas that blew its way right through the cowling. I had a high time Lycoming engine suck a valve on me one day but it was tough enough to keep running so I could get back to the airport. Continental came out with a beefier case that seemed to fix that problem. Given Continental’s more recent history I’m not really surprised about the troubles with the Z129. Today all major aircraft engine manufacturers have had repeated and significant failure issues, mostly due to metallurgy.

I think I’ve figured out how to post a photo of my oil pan, so I’ll try it later on.

Thanks again!

Bill

Bill

I have a TEA20 with the Standard engine, and I've never heard of block or head cracking. But when I read on this forum of the commonality of block cracking in Continental engines I wonder why the manufacturer hasn't learned, considering the commonality of crank case and cylinder cracking in their aero engines!! A very high percentage of crank cases required repair at overhaul. I am not a Continental engine fan!

Thank goodness the "new" Cessnas went with Lycoming!

I always found the Lycoming engines far more robust (particularly the 540 series), however even they had their problems with crankshaft failures. One of the better known accidents and subsequent inquiries (into the deaths of all on board) here in Australia involves a Piper Chieftain that suffered a double engine failure due to BOTH crankshafts failing on the same flight. The chances of that would be millions to one?

Unfortunately, my kids follow in the family airline tradition. Some years ago my son trashed a Chieftain here in Australia following a nose leg failure and my daughter (who lives in Houston, TX) is a Flight Attendant with Continantal Airlines - so if ever you are on Continental and hear a Flight Attendant with an Aussie accent, tell her you too share a passion for Fergys. (All my kids learned to drive on the Ferguson tractor!)

Bob

They always say a good landing is one you can walk away from, so it does my heart good to see an example of that with your son standing unscathed next to some bent metal! I’ll be listening for your daughter’s accent when I next fly Continental. And if you have occasion to fly Horizon/Alaska airlines on the U.S. West coast, be on the lookout for a guy sitting up front with cuts, bruises and some grease under his fingernails, sporting a goofy (Fergy) grin. It’ll be merely me.

Bill

In the case of fixed wing aircraft, gravity sucks. However, with rotary wing aircraft, they are so bl__dy ugly, the earth repells them!

I've often wondered how a Ferguson tractor would go with the Continental or Standard engine replaced with a Pratt & Whitney PT6 gas turbine. I suspect it would haul @sss and dependent on gearing, likely to break even open highway speed limits!!

:-)

Bob

I agree! A Pratt-powered Ferguson would be a kick at a tractor pull. Add an after-burner and you wouldn"t need a brush hog or a chipper!

Take care,

Bill