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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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TO-20 Distributor PROBLEMS!!! 6-volt system

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Stan/TX

08-10-2007 13:35:00




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OK guys, I got everything running, new distributor in, converted back to positive ground, generator charging, and engine timed and running good. Was starting to mow the last pasture and it all stops. Try to start and things don"t sound so good. Look around and the distributor - the NEW distributor - is sticking out of the engine about 1 inch - just like the last one that broke. Took it out, opened it up, silvery oil about 1/2 inch deep on the inside and the advance mechanism all messed up and coming apart. The first one that broke had a broken advance weight that stopped everything from turning - no oil. This one had pieces of springs, clips and I don"t know what inside of it that stopped it from turning. At least when the distributor stops turning the engine pushes it out of the block instead of breaking off the drive gears.

Bottom line, I NEED SOME HELP!! Did I get a bad distributor or am I doing something bad, bad wrong. Just tell me and I"ll stop or change or something. My distributor turns CCW (this is correct from all the information I have) - does this matter to the distributor or are they made to turn either direction? This is not fun anymore.

The new distributor may have 10 hours on it - probably less. Bought it from this site.

Thanks for any direction you can give.

Stan

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JohnP (ohio)

08-12-2007 09:01:53




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 Re: TO-20 Distributor PROBLEMS!!! 6-volt system in reply to Stan/TX, 08-10-2007 13:35:00  
I don't know if this will help but the distributor has a plug on the side of it to fill it's internal oil supply. According to the shop manual it should be done prior to running the engine John



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Stan/TX

08-12-2007 12:28:32




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 Re: TO-20 Distributor PROBLEMS!!! 6-volt system in reply to JohnP (ohio), 08-12-2007 09:01:53  
I saw those instructions also. Just don"t know where to put the oil. Neither one of the distributors I have have the "PLUG" that unscrews to drain/fill the oil resevoir. In fact the pictures in the parts manual and the service manual do not look any thing like mine - except they are 4 cylinder distributors with points. There is some sort of spring loaded ball bearing thing that is just below the main housing on one side of the shaft - looks like it might be the replacement to the plug. I do not have any instructions/directions on how to use it if it does access the oil resevoir.

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Stan/TX

08-11-2007 08:28:31




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 Re: TO-20 Distributor PROBLEMS!!! 6-volt system in reply to Stan/TX, 08-10-2007 13:35:00  
Jerry, John, and Grampa

Grampa, I am really glad my difficulties are timely for someone. It helps to know someone can profit from this experience.

Jerry & John,

I accept what you are saying as a likely cause. The question in my mind is - did the distributor come apart, seize, and cause the camshaft to push it out or did the camshaft problems cause it all? I understand how the camshaft moving back and forth is not good and could cause the distributor to be pushed out. How does that destroy the advance mechanism inside the distributor? The first distributor was the one that was on the tractor when I got it 15 years ago. It appears the broken advance weight was wedged inside the distributor in such a way that it would not turn.

I have come to trust the information you give on this forum - it has been great for me. I am not questioning your experience, knowledge, info, and advice - I am seeking a greater understanding of what is going on inside this engine.

Jerry, at the risk of sounding elementary I am going to ask - How do you check for proper gear retention after you pull the timing cover? The only way I see in the manuals is to do a complete engine tear down. Does this have anything to do with the govenor?

Again, thanks for any info. John, thanks for letting me know I have run into something that is not in the manuals - my wife accuses me of always having the unusual happen.

Stan

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Jerry/MT

08-11-2007 14:31:04




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 Re: TO-20 Distributor PROBLEMS!!! 6-volt system in reply to Stan/TX, 08-11-2007 08:28:31  
I can only venture a guess as to why the internal mechanisms failed without at least looking at the distributor. My thoughts at this point is the outer body of the distributor is fixed to the block while the shaft is being jammed upward by the force from the camshaft. Whatever reacts this upward force failed and caused the rotating advance mechanism to contact the stationary breaker plate. The force of the cam moving whichever way is normally very small but not zero due to the the fact that it's an angle drive. However if the cam moves significantly more than the allowable tolerance, the thrust force get greater as the distributor gear "climbs up" the cam gear.

I don't know what manuals you have but you don't "have to do a complete engine tear down." I have never done this job but in looking at the shop manual and the parts manual, this is what I do if i had this problem. Someone else mught have a better suggestion.

You have to remove the hood and the radiator , pull the crankshaft pulley, remove the timing cover and the governor drive assembly nut. Push and pull on the timing gear. There should be virtually no motion(0.003-0.007 ") fore or aft on the cam. If the motion is greater than 0.007" you need a new thrust plate or the the thrust plate is loose. If so, then pull the cam gear and do what's required.You are not going to remove the camshaft so all the other stuff in the Ferguson Shop Manual doesn't apply. I wouldn't classify that as a complete engine tear down. It's a bit of work, but at this point, what choice do you have?

Hope this helps you.

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Stan/TX

08-14-2007 16:57:41




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 Re: TO-20 Distributor PROBLEMS!!! 6-volt system in reply to Jerry/MT, 08-11-2007 14:31:04  
Jerry,

Thanks for the info. Is there any type of inspection/tests of the cam shaft, movement, gears, etc. that can be made from the distributor shaft opening? I have not had the time to take the front off yet. Just got the distributors totally disassembled today.



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Stan/TX

08-11-2007 18:37:38




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 Re: TO-20 Distributor PROBLEMS!!! 6-volt system in reply to Jerry/MT, 08-11-2007 14:31:04  
Jerry,

Thanks for the info. Basically I follow the instructions for checking the working of the govenor and access to all those parts. That"s what I was thinking about doing - it just helps to have confirmation from someone with a lot more experience and knowledge.



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John (UK)

08-11-2007 04:32:43




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 Re: TO-20 Distributor PROBLEMS!!! 6-volt system in reply to Stan/TX, 08-10-2007 13:35:00  
It would appear, as Jerry says, that the camshaft is floating back-wards and forwards in the Block most likely due to a loose locknut on the Camshaft gear. We gave had this before, many times. If this is the case then no matter whose Distributor you fitted it would destroy it and you will have no claim on the supplier unfortunately, as you have fitted it. This is something that would never be in a Service Manual, you would only know about it through experience.....John

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Jerry/MT

08-10-2007 14:30:11




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 Re: TO-20 Distributor PROBLEMS!!! 6-volt system in reply to Stan/TX, 08-10-2007 13:35:00  
I can't tell from your post whether you "did anything wrong". However installing a new distributor isn't like replacing an engine in a F-16 so it's hard to imagine what you could have done anything wrong and caused the failure you are describing.

Are you sure that your cam gear isn't loose, allowing the cam to move and pushing the distributor out? If the previous disributor failed in the same way, I'd pull the timing cover and check the gear retention on the cam. That could be the problem. If that isn't the problem, where are you getting your distributors from? If you had two in a row fail in a similar mannner and the cam is OK, whoever is supplying the distributors should get you one that doesn't self distruct.
And yes, the distributor turns CCW.

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GrampaJack

08-11-2007 05:22:45




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 Re: TO-20 Distributor PROBLEMS!!! 6-volt system in reply to Jerry/MT, 08-10-2007 14:30:11  
This is great timing for this question since I am reassembling the engine for my TO20 this weekend. I assume we are talking about the nut that goes on over the governor (ball type). I have been struggling to get the governor right and noticed that the nut has drag on it when threading it on so � is the answer a little dab of locktite as insurance?



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