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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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Web to Sleeve Gap

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GrampaJack

07-18-2007 10:23:16




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I have the sleeves pulled from the Z120 out of my TO20 and I can see why the O rings were leaking. The area where they seal is pitted in a couple places especially where they were welded. The welds look ok. I would like to smooth this out since, I think just putting new O rings in will not solve the problem with out dealing with the pits. The sleeves are a loose fit with out the rings. The questions is how much of a gap can I have between the outer wall of the sleeve and the case? Was planning to use JB to fill the pits and make a better surface for the O rings. Any opinions? Thanks, Jack

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gshadel

07-18-2007 15:09:24




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 Re: Web to Sleeve Gap in reply to GrampaJack, 07-18-2007 10:23:16  
Gramps, I don't know the gap. The bottom sleeve bore in the block is tapered to help force a good seal. Maybe measure a good bottom bore on another cylinder with a bore gauge at the same depth to get an accurate ID for your damaged bore? Has to be at the same depth since the bore is tapered.
The sleeve will indeed drop right in loose without the O-rings, that's normal.
When I rebuilt my TO, I lightly polished the bottom bores with steel wool to make sure I got a good seal with the new O-rings. You CAN indeed use JB Weld on that. JB Weld upper temp limit is 500 degrees, you are well below that temp. limit since it is at the bottom of the coolant cavity. I successfully used JB Weld to repair a bottom crack in my TO-20 block about 4 years back - has never leaked a drop. It will be difficult to grind out that bottom bore. I used a dremel tool with a grinding stone. Slow work, but patience will pay off. If you are not sure you have the tools, etc. call a machine shop, they can probably weld-up the pits and grind them down .... for a $$$.

George

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GrampaJack

07-19-2007 05:14:11




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 Re: Web to Sleeve Gap in reply to gshadel, 07-18-2007 15:09:24  
Thanks George, here is the way I plan to do it. I have used this method successfully on steam engines in the past. First, clean the web area where the O-rings will make contact. This will consist of wire brushing with a 3� brush on the end of a drill I have that turns about 2000 rpm. Then cleaning with solvent, probably lacquer thinner. Clean the sleeves and fill the groove where the O rings ride with bondo. Wrap the bottom of the sleeve up to about a half-inch above where the top O-ring will be with stainless steel tape. This tape is just a few thousandths thick and very smooth and very sticky. Will build this up to maybe 8 to 10 thousandths? Coat the entire sleeve especially the taped area with Vaseline. This advice came from the tech people at JB. They said this is the best release agent for JB. Carefully coat the bottom area of the web where the O-rings will ride with JB. Insert the sleeve which will force excess JB out the bottom which can be cleaned up immediately. Once the JB has set up to the point where you can�t dent it with a fingernail the sleeve will be jacked back out. This should leave a perfect surface for the O rings in the web. The tape wrapped around the sleeve is then removed, leaving a small amount of relief between the outer wall of the sleeve and the web. (Thus my dilemma as to how big this gap should be). Brush the bondo out of the O-ring groove and (after letting the JB cure and feathering the surface at the top) I am done. Sounds like a lot of work but it actually goes pretty quick. Jack

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gshadel

07-19-2007 10:50:38




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 Re: Web to Sleeve Gap in reply to GrampaJack, 07-19-2007 05:14:11  
Gramps, sounds like a pretty good plan. I've been a Chemist in the adhesives business for >20 years... no I don't work for the JB Weld folks, and not competitors with them either. Anyway, a couple pointers to insure your success - I recommend a 3 step process for your block area, step one mechanical clean to get rust, welding slag, etc. out of the pitted areas with your wire wheel etc. until the pitted area is shiny bare metal. Use a dremel with a little grinding wheel if necessary to get in there & get the slag, rust out. If possible, undercut the pitted area to provide better anchorage for the epoxy. Step 2, clean with a polar solvent like methanol or acetone. Rubbing alcohol is okay but it dries slower than the ones mentioned above and most the stuff you get in the store has some water in it, which you don't really want. Then clean with a non-polar solvent like hexane, heptane,... not gasoline, that leaves an oily residue, you need a solvent that dries with no residue. White gas (coleman lantern fuel) works great & dries fast, that's may favorite solvent for glue jobs. Dry REAL good. Use a hair dryer to make sure all solvent is evaporated out. Then apply your epoxy, whether that be JB or whatever. Be real careful with the vasoline, if any of that squeezes into the pitted area you JB weld won't stick. I'd shy away from the vasoline in your application and maybe use plastic wrap, like Saran or Glad wrap, or wax paper. Epoxy won't stick to those either, and there is no risk of it squeezing into your repair work when you push the sleeve down in your block. When I did a job similar to yours, I used a piece of cardboard with wax paper to press around the inside of the bore and probably had to do some extra grinding than you will need to do with your method.

Good luck, let us know how it turns out.

George

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