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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum

to20/z129/no oil filter

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david grasmick

01-26-2007 14:18:03

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I have a to20 with a z129 cont. engine. There is no visible oil filter externally or internally. There appears to be some sort of a sump type assembly which was full of gunk. Is there an add-on oil filter that can be applied to this engine? Also anti-freeze was in the oil. david

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mike a. tenn.

01-27-2007 03:59:23

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Re: to20/z129/no oil filter in reply to david grasmick, 01-26-2007 14:18:03

david...because you said there was no external oil filter i assumed you had the Z-120 engine with the filter in the oil pan. after what jim in oh. said, now i'm curious. please let us know what you have on the data plate on your engine.

the coolant in the oil problem is pretty common with TO-20's. (mine has a the same problem) if you "surf" thru this ferguson forum you will find many discussions about it and quite a few ideas about how to cure this problem. let us know what you find.

-mike

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Jim in OH

01-26-2007 19:53:07

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Re: to20/z129/no oil filter in reply to david grasmick, 01-26-2007 14:18:03

HI David... I don't know what you have, but the situation might be a little more complicated than suggested. Some time after start of the TO30/Z129 production, the TO20/Z120 replacement blocks were cast from the Z129 molds but were not drilled for the external filter. The block casting number (by memory) is Z129A600 I think. The original TO20 casting says Z120A600 It will say one or the other, and if it is Z129 and does not have the drillings for an external oil filter on the right side, I'd venture to say that is what you have. Most likely the innards are TO20 as does the suggestion of a sump filled with gunk, which is probably the place that the filter should be.

Let us know what you think you have

JIm

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Dan S (NY)

01-27-2007 19:29:16

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Re: to20/z129/no oil filter in reply to Jim in OH, 01-26-2007 19:53:07

I have one of those on my TO20. You can see in the picture that the bosses for the oil filter and the generator mounts have not been drilled. I have the filter in the pan.

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mike a. tenn.

01-28-2007 01:35:09

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Re: to20/z129/no oil filter in reply to Dan S (NY), 01-27-2007 19:29:16

dan...thenks for the picture. now i've "seen" one of the replacement blocks.

-mike

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Matt L

01-27-2007 08:01:29

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Re: to20/z129/no oil filter in reply to Jim in OH, 01-26-2007 19:53:07

Could even have a Z129 pan and then Z120 filter under it. Or no filter at all.

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Jerry/MT

01-26-2007 18:40:25

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Re: to20/z129/no oil filter in reply to david grasmick, 01-26-2007 14:18:03

If you don't have an external oil filter, you don't have a Z129 block. Look at the data plate right in the center on the left hnd side of the engine. It will tell you your engine model and serial number. The Z129 block had a machined boss for mounting the external oil filter on it on the right hand side of the block near the rear.
More than likely, you engine is a Z120 which has the oil filter internal to the oil pan and has a big round plate on the bottom of the pan to access it.
As Mike said, coolant in the oil is a sign of anything from a cracked head or block to a blown head gasket or both.

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david grasmick

01-27-2007 07:32:27

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Re: to20/z129/no oil filter in reply to Jerry/MT, 01-26-2007 18:40:25

The block # are Z129 A6000N. There definitly is not an access hole in the oil pan. How would I go about setting this engine up with an oil filter? Appreciate all suggestions and advice.

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Jerry/MT

01-27-2007 11:35:45

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Re: to20/z129/no oil filter in reply to david grasmick, 01-27-2007 07:32:27

You're using a casting number. That doesn't determine what engine model it is. The data plate will tell you the engine model number along with the engine serial number. I suppose that someone put a different pan on your Z120 and either covered up the original oil filter or removed it. "The (Z120) oil filter is located in the crankcase and is supplied with oil from the center main bearing through a standpipe with two metering holes." (Ref: Ferguson Shop Manual) On the TO-30,"The oil filter is supplied through a drilled metering passage from the main oil gallery." (Ref: Ferguson Shop Manual). I suppose there is a way to modify the Z120 engine to have an external filter but it would be cheaper to find the parts and put he original oil filter on. If it were my tractor, That's what I would do. Your machine,your $'s, your call.

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mike a. tenn.

01-27-2007 15:11:01

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Re: to20/z129/no oil filter in reply to Jerry/MT, 01-27-2007 11:35:45

jerry...you're right, he should be giving us the engine model and serial# from the data plate.

in my shop manual in the "cylinder block" section, under "model difference" (page 24 in my manual)...it talks about replacement blocks for the 20's being cast from the 30's pattern, which included an external oil filter set up. i don't know when they did this or how many "replacement blocks" are out there, but it could be what david has. a long shot but....???

-mike

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Jim in OH

01-27-2007 19:59:06

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Re: to20/z129/no oil filter in reply to mike a. tenn., 01-27-2007 15:11:01

If you read my posting above, that is what I already said but the TO20 replacement blocks made from the Z19A600 castings did NOT have drillings for the external oil filter (and therefore did NOT include an external oil filter setup) or the generator bracket. (read the last sentence of that paragraph page 24). I suppose one could drill it for one, but this could have all internals from either the TO20 or TO30. There is no way to tell without taking the pan off.

Jim

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mike a. tenn.

01-28-2007 01:19:03

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Re: to20/z129/no oil filter in reply to Jim in OH, 01-27-2007 19:59:06

jim...i stand corrected. should have read it closer, maybe i would have understood it better. but i appreciate you pointing it out for me because now, once again even at my age, i've learned something, which is why i spend so much time reading all that's in this forum. so thanks.

i have a to-20 with the internal filter, and have never seen one of these replacement blocks. i can't imagine david's 20 not having a place for the oil filter, so i agree....it must be inside the block. thanks again for pointing out my error.

-mike

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david grasmick

01-28-2007 13:39:13

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Re: to20/z129/no oil filter in reply to mike a. tenn., 01-28-2007 01:19:03

Thanks for everyone's input. It appears I'll have to do more research and inspection of my tractor. What manuals would anyone suggest I purchase and from what source?

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mike a. tenn.

01-28-2007 14:29:28

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Re: to20/z129/no oil filter in reply to david grasmick, 01-28-2007 13:39:13

i ordered my to-20 manual from my massey ferguson dealer, or you can click on "Tractor Manuals" in the "Marketplace" section on the top left margin of this page. it will take you to a source for manuals and other parts. i ordered my TO-35 manuals from this market place and recieved them within a few days.

having the owners/operators manual is very handy and if you're planning on doing any type of repair work, the shop or service manual is a must. even tho they're a little expensive, you'll never be sorry you paid the money for them.

have you dropped your oil pan yet? let us know what you find as i'm curious now as i'm sure a lot of guys on here are.

-mike

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mike a. tenn.

01-27-2007 11:14:02

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Re: to20/z129/no oil filter in reply to david grasmick, 01-27-2007 07:32:27

david...if matt l.'s guess is right and maybe you have the wrong oil pan without the access hole, (it could possibly have been damaged and replaced with the wrong pan), your filter, or the place for the filter, might be inside the pan anyway. have you pulled your oil pan?

if you have a replacement engine that was cast from the TO-30 pattern for the TO and TE-20's, on the lower right rear side of the engine there should be a boss that the oil filter housing is bolted to. i believe this should be right below and behind the generator toward the back of the engine.

if you have nothing like either of these things, i don't know what you have. maybe someone else on this forum can give you a better idea or suggestion. wish i could help you more...

-mike

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mike a. tenn

01-26-2007 14:34:05

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Re: to20/z129/no oil filter in reply to david grasmick, 01-26-2007 14:18:03

david...your oil filter is inside your oil pan under that round cover on the bottom of your oil pan.

coolant in the oil could mean a number of things from a leaky head gasket to a cracked block, which is common on your tractor.

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david grasmick

01-30-2007 09:04:14

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Re: to20/z129/no oil filter in reply to mike a. tenn, 01-26-2007 14:34:05

I did remove the oil pan as there was no access plate. After removing the oil pan that is where I found the round sump rather than an internal oil filter.

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mike a. tenn.

01-30-2007 10:35:12

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Re: to20/z129/no oil filter in reply to david grasmick, 01-30-2007 09:04:14

david...describe this "round sump" for us. is it just a "pipe" that comes down into the bottom of the pan? is it like a cup? how is it held in place or attached to the inside of the block? what you're calling a sump might be part of the filter assembly. the filter that goes inside a TO- 20 is an "open" filter that looks kinda like a small diameter air filter for cars. describe to us what you see in there or take a pic and post it.

-mike

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