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rod and journal tolerances TO 20

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mike mcmurray

11-13-2006 16:50:55

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Hi again!I took some measurements tonight using both plasticguage and a caliper. Can someone help me make out what I have found, and what my options are or should be. I have a TO 2o. I realize the journal to bearing tolerance is .0015 to .0025 inches and the journal diameter is 1.9365 to 1.9375 (stated in shop manual). Below is a summary of my findings....Plasticguage results showed .003 inches between the bearing and journals for each rod. A couple were really close to the .0025 ruler on the plasticguage paper (which would make it close to the higher end of acceptable). I did three seperate measurements on each journal with a caliper, and found the following averages for each. They were 1.9036, 1.9060, 1.9053, and 1.9033. I was unable to locate a stamp indicating if the crank had ever been reground, and if so, how much. Can someone help me out. I am growing nervous with the thought of purchasing a new crankshaft, given their prices..... But I will do what I have to do. All responses appreciated! Thanks and have a great night. Mike McMurray

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gerard

11-14-2006 13:58:19

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Re: rod and journal tolerances TO 20 in reply to mike mcmurray, 11-13-2006 16:50:55

DO NOT USE SHIMSTOCK. About the daftest idea I"ve heard this year. The shells are a "nip" fit in the rods. Shimming will either stretch the rod"s big-end eye or distort the shells, but do little to take up the wear. You would need to file the ends of the shells, and then we"re into real bodging. Your crank has been ground MINUS 30 thou. If scoring isn"t too bad, put a new set of - .030" shells & don"t use a thin engine oil. Will last for years (don"t forget to refurbish the oil pump).
If you"re really concerned, only option is another regrind to -.40" or -.60".

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John (TR)

11-14-2006 18:23:56

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Re: rod and journal tolerances TO 20 in reply to gerard, 11-14-2006 13:58:19

I was working on a 54 Ford sedan with a 6 cyl motor and it jumped time. Since I was re-motoring the car dor a hot rod we pulled the engine and opened it up. The bearings had all been shimmed with looked like pipe tobacco cans and the pistons had been knurled. Wonder how long it ran like that? The timing chain was so loose you could squeeze it together above the crank and it would touch.

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Jim in OH

11-14-2006 14:56:32

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Re: rod and journal tolerances TO 20 in reply to gerard, 11-14-2006 13:58:19

At least there is two of us in agreement.. JIm

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mike mcmurray

11-14-2006 03:24:26

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Re: rod and journal tolerances TO 20 in reply to mike mcmurray, 11-13-2006 16:50:55

Thanks for all the replies....much appreciated! So my options are using either shim stock (where can I find it, and at what thickness should I look for given my tolerances) OR since there was limited scoring on the journal, possibly polishing the crank and installing new bearing shells that are .030 over (not sure what size bearings I have now, but on the back of them is 1670 SB FM SL). I have found a place that carries .030 and .040 overs....

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CENTAUR

11-13-2006 22:02:29

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Re: rod and journal tolerances TO 20 in reply to mike mcmurray, 11-13-2006 16:50:55

I agree with Duner Wi with the shim stock.It works.I think you may still be able to get some.You sound like you can do it.CENTAUR

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Jim in OH

11-13-2006 21:16:55

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Re: rod and journal tolerances TO 20 in reply to mike mcmurray, 11-13-2006 16:50:55

I'd venture to say, that you have a crank with at least the rod journals ground 0.030 under (and probably the mains too) and your clearances, although at the outside edge of factory tolerances, seem quite servicable to me if there is no scoring. I'd probably polish the crank and put a new set of bearing shells in it (0.030) and be done with it. YOu could probably have the crank reground 0.040 under, but those bearings sizes are much harder to find, and I'd want to make sure that they are available before commiting to it... JIm

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Aaron Ford

11-13-2006 19:10:22

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Re: rod and journal tolerances TO 20 in reply to mike mcmurray, 11-13-2006 16:50:55

Hello, You should see a stamp on the back side of the bearings. It should read STD, 010, 020. If there is no stamp then it is likely the bearings are the originals. Have a machine shop that grinds cranks mike it for you and they will be able to discern exactly if it has been reground in the past, and how far it needs to be ground. My 1959 MF65 (high hours) had replacement rod bearings, but factory original mains. My crank was ground .010 to remove the out of round condition that existed. Total cost of having it ground was $87. Work was done by BAMCO of Morgantown WV.

I am installing the crank tomorrow.

HTH Aaron

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Duner Wi

11-13-2006 17:44:20

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Re: rod and journal tolerances TO 20 in reply to mike mcmurray, 11-13-2006 16:50:55

Well here is what I did on my TO 20 and it has good oil pressure and lasted 25 years or so. No body but me does this any more cause time is money and it takes time . I measure at BDC and again 1/2 way up to TDC. This will give you a pretty good idea How much out of round you are. I got by with .002 out of round by using new bearings and shimming the cap with shim stock. This is available in various sizes.
Used to be able to purchase tapered shim stock but last time I checked I could not get it . Looks like you are .030 under and unless they are like new I would replace them and then start shimming. Do one rod at a time and loosen it a bit when you go to the next one. You want to be able to roll the engine over by hand and for sure you don't want it sticky on the way to TDC. You better check the mains also. Depending on what style mains you have you might have to pull the crank out to deal with the thrust main. No body monkeys with this any more but if you are old enough to have done this same thing on old engines with babbit bearings and a shim pack it is not difficult. Just takes time. You will have to dress the end of bearing just a wee tad so the crush of the bearing when tightened does not crumple the bearing. Good luck and have fun.

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