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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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TO30 Hydraulic oil type

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Tom in SC

11-08-2006 18:47:51




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Hey Guys,
I have a TO30. I just replaced the PTO oil seal. My origional owners manual calls for 90wt mineral oil. Is that standard??? Mineral oil? What do you guys use?
Thanks,
Tom




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Wadmalaw Joe

11-10-2006 02:50:17




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 Re: TO30 Hydraulic oil type in reply to Tom in SC, 11-08-2006 18:47:51  
Hey Tom, where in SC are you? Mt. Pleasant Napa had 6, 5 gal. buckets there when I picked mine up. Yes this web site is great, it has been extremely helpful for me.



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Phil(WA)

11-09-2006 23:09:37




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 Re: TO30 Hydraulic oil type in reply to Tom in SC, 11-08-2006 18:47:51  
I am perplexed about this discussion that 10w-30 oil can not be found. I find it in every auto parts stores, COSTCO, WalMart, etc. in my neck of the woods, NW USA. In fact my GM car and truck owner's manuals specify that this is the oil of choice. I also use it my tractor engines but not the hydraulics. No real reason except the book says GL-1`, but if the consensus says that 10W-30 is workable in the hydraulics, then next time I will use it.

Phil(WA)

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John (UK)

11-11-2006 12:01:40




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 Re: TO30 Hydraulic oil type in reply to Phil(WA), 11-09-2006 23:09:37  
The oil was 15W/30 ....10W30 may be too thin for summer use if it is hot in your region.



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Phil(WA)

11-12-2006 00:07:59




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 Re: TO30 Hydraulic oil type in reply to John (UK), 11-11-2006 12:01:40  
Thanks John. My TO35 seems to have a leak somewhere as the lift drifts down in a few minutes but will lift everything ok. So I thought the 90 wt oil may improve that issue. I just purchased the tractor and the oil contained a lot of water and that certainly contributed so we will see. I use the M1103 oil in my 30 for a long time and it works just fine.

Phil(WA)



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John (UK)

11-12-2006 04:51:30




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 Re: TO30 Hydraulic oil type in reply to Phil(WA), 11-12-2006 00:07:59  
The usual problems with the TO35/FE35/MF35 is the Pump, they didn't fit a check valve like the TE20 and the TO20/30, because of this when any wear takes place the pressure will leak out. The check valve allowed the pressure to be taken off the Pump and carried on the valve. On this Pump you have, the usual places for the leak to occur are the Pistons and side Chambers, the Control Valve and the Relief Valve. What I would do is replace the Relief valve first and then if that doesn't cure it you can decide if you want to remove the Pump and replace the worn parts. You can change this Relief Valve through the side cover without too much trouble. I can send you pictures of the Pump and the location of the Valve if you need them. Just email me at:- fergusontractors(at)tiscali.co.uk
so that I will have your address to send them to.
The M1103 oil will be ok for your TO35, the Multi-grade is better if you live in a cold winter climate that is all, not everyone has a need to use it, it is a personal choice, it can just make life a little easier when it is very cold.

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Phil(WA)

11-11-2006 14:33:26




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 Re: TO30 Hydraulic oil type in reply to John (UK), 11-11-2006 12:01:40  
Oh, sorry. Think I will stick to the 80-90 weight GL-1 oil as it works just fine for my climate which is usually above freezing(0 deg C). I have talked to folks that have used single weight, 30w oil, for many yrs and are very satisfied. So, this Ferguson machinery seems pretty tolerant.

Phil(WA)



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John (UK)

11-11-2006 17:01:42




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 Re: TO30 Hydraulic oil type in reply to Phil(WA), 11-11-2006 14:33:26  
No need to be sorry Phil, you are fortunate that you could use either, the 15W/30 is a better oil though as it has finer qualities the the GL1 doesn't have, but up to you which you use....John



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Jerry/MT

11-08-2006 19:14:40




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 Re: TO30 Hydraulic oil type in reply to Tom in SC, 11-08-2006 18:47:51  
The original specs call for a GL-1 type 90W oil for summer use and 80W for temps below 50 and the capacity is 6 gallons. You can find it at NAPA and if you do a search in the archives you can actually find the NAPA part number. It's also available at TSC and other places. You can use a universal trans/hydraulic fluid but some people with leaky systems say it doesn't work well for them (This is what I will use when I have to replace my fluid.). John(UK) says that in the UK they use 15W30 as the approved replacement. There are folks that say you must never use a GL-5 gear oil in these old machines since that have some bronze/brass parts and the GL-5 oils have sulfur based compounds in the additive package that will damage the yellow parts. Now you know about as much as I do on this subject. There are discussions aud nauseum in the archives on this subject

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John (UK)

11-11-2006 12:11:59




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 Re: TO30 Hydraulic oil type in reply to Jerry/MT, 11-08-2006 19:14:40  
Hi Jerry, you said about Universal transmission oil/hydraulic fluid being not very good in leaky systems. I take it that you mean the very thin hydraulic oil that you might use in say a Hydraulic Digger, if that is the case I would agree, but 15W/30 is about as thick as engine oil, in fact it is engine oil and shouldn't make any noticeable difference if it has leaks as it is approximately the same viscosity unlike proper hydraulic oil, or have I read it wrong.
(Doesn't this oil thing drive you nuts)..John

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John (UK)

11-09-2006 08:55:23




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 Re: TO30 Hydraulic oil type in reply to Jerry/MT, 11-08-2006 19:14:40  
Not just using it in the UK Jerry, they are using 15W/30 Multi-grade all over the world now. It is of special benefit to those users in cold climates.



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Jerry/MT

11-09-2006 12:15:25




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 Re: TO30 Hydraulic oil type in reply to John (UK), 11-09-2006 08:55:23  
John, is this 15W30 an engine grade oil that's is used in the trans/hydraulic system or is a special use oil. My gut feel is that it is engine oil but I want to be sure. I've not seen 15W30 hear in the States but 15W40 is a standard diesel engine oil and is commonly used on diesel powered farm equipment and trucks. I use a trans/hydraulic oil meeting Ford spec's M2C-134D in my Ford 4610 and planned to use it in the TO-30 when I change out the fluid. It's lighter than the 90W Gl-1 so it should be better in coldweather and should have the water dispersant additives of a this class of oils.

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John (UK)

11-09-2006 16:14:35




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 Re: TO30 Hydraulic oil type in reply to Jerry/MT, 11-09-2006 12:15:25  
Jerry, The 15W30 oil is just standard type engine grade oil, I have heard a few times that you can't get or have difficulty obtaining this grade in the USA and Canada and you can only get 15W/40 even that will be better than GL1 if its cold and I think with some of its other additives it could be a possible help to stop the Control Valve sticking. I haven't checked the Ford oil spec. does it meet the MF spec for this type of oil do you know, possibly it does. I plan to check this out asap...John

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Jerry/MT

11-09-2006 17:38:25




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 Re: TO30 Hydraulic oil type in reply to John (UK), 11-09-2006 16:14:35  
John, I believe it does because the Massey spec is printed on the container and so is John Deere's and Case's, etc. I don't remember the spec number (does MF110X,sound familiar?), however. I may be wrong but I think a lot of these generic oils are made to meet everybody's requirements. Using the 15W40 at least should have plenty of detergent capability since it is a diesel oil. I think it also may be a tad less expensive.

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John (UK)

11-10-2006 06:16:09




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 Re: TO30 Hydraulic oil type in reply to Jerry/MT, 11-09-2006 17:38:25  
Jerry,...You are correct in what you say about these oils meeting everyones specification. I think the MF number was M1103 but I will have to check that, it just came into my mind as I was writing this. As winter is almost here we should soon know if this oil is better than the original type, but it looks good so far....John



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Dell (WA)

11-10-2006 18:55:34




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 Re: TO30 Hydraulic oil type in reply to John (UK), 11-10-2006 06:16:09  
John..... ..not to "butt-inn" here, but over on the Ford N-Board, llamas (a professional engineer and N-Board founding member in 1996) recently reposted his well reasoned take on tractor hydraulic oil as used in BOTH the N-Fords and your sainted Ferguson's (grin).

And the difference between a 9N Ford hydraulic system and a Ferguson TO-20 hydraulic system is? The radiator grill badge? (grin) While Ford/New-Holland now recommends hydro-tranny oil that meets spec: M2C-134D. Many find that the thinner 134 oil (about 60wt) leaks past worn hydraulic seals faster than the thicker 1939 recommended 90wt mineral gear oil. Which is similar to todays commonly available GL-1 oil. (US specs)

As for using multi-viscosity engine oil for hydraulic fluid, sorry I CRINGE. Your recommended 15-30wt oil is really just 15wt oil with temperature sensitive additives that make it act like the heavier oil spec when it is HEATED UP. This takes some time, our 5-gal hydro-tranny oil sump takes about 1-hour to reach operating temperature.

While this might be trivial for some hydraulic applications, just thinking of 15wt oil keeping our differential ring and pinion lubricated with 15wt oil, is NOT COMFORTING. Some differentials use 140wt oil with EP additives to keep from melting the ring and pinion gears. And 15wt is going to provide adequate differential lubrication? I don't think so.

On a person note: I was a BMW dealer's mechanic in the mid-70's and because of the difficulties importing the BMW factory specified transmission oil, a US-spec oil was provided. Pretty soon, BMW owners (a weird group, granted) were COMPLAINING that their easy shifting 4-speed trannys were CRASHING and GRINDING gears. Turns out, the synchromesh balk-rings coatings were being eaten by some of the additives in the US-spec oil.

I was scheduled to go to BMW factory tranny school when I got a "better offer" to return to my original skills and training as an Electronics Instrumentation Flight Test Engineer for the Boeing Airplane Co in Seattle, Washington where I studied the effects of vibration on airplanes with accelerometers. Seems people get excited when wings and engines and stuff fall off. (grin)..... ...respectfully, Dell, the retired

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Jerry/MT

11-11-2006 18:40:59




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 Re: TO30 Hydraulic oil type in reply to Dell (WA), 11-10-2006 18:55:34  
Well reasoned input from anyone is never unwelcome on this site, Dell, so there's no need to feel that you're butting in. Heck I answer questions and give opinions in the N series and have never been made to feel unwelcome. That's a strength of these forum, collective experience.



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John (UK)

11-11-2006 07:31:34




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 Re: TO30 Hydraulic oil type in reply to Dell (WA), 11-10-2006 18:55:34  
Thank you for your observations about the oil. GL1 oil was also used in the engines too and it was never rated at 60wt but 40wt. If you have read what has been said about this oil you would have seen that we are trying to overcome a problem that affects users in cold climates, that is the prime intention. The information about what oil to use (15/40W) came from Castrol Oil co. who should know a thing or two about oil by now.Are you are saying that they don"t know what they are talking about. Llamas article on the oil was read a long time ago but it didn"t do anything to help the guys with the cold weather problem. As for cringing, you will find that some of the newer tractors also use Multi-grade oils in their transmission and hydraulics. There are a lot of operators that have been running on this oil for a long time now with NO adverse effects to the transmission or the Hydraulics, just read back through the archives, if there had been problems we would have been inundated with transmission problems and a serious shortage of spare parts. The only reason the GL1 oil was specified originally was that there wasn"t an option, only in the mid - 1950"s did we get Multi-grade oils here in UK and they were even then, approved for use by the factory, in the tractors engines and Hydraulics/transmissions,they were also used on the production line in the new tractors, so perhaps they knew more about it than some do now.
As for BMW having problems, they are like any other engineering outfit, they are no better although they would have us think otherwise, their propaganda machine tries to have us thinking that everything German is great, well it isn"t as I know from personal experience with some of their grass machinery and Combine Harvesters, they are no better than anyone else, one big problem they do have is they don"t listen to their customers, you have what they offer or nothing at all, they know best, they are inflexible, no shades of Grey with them, it"s either black or it is white. Ford New-Holland no longer exist it is CNH and has been for some time. Respectfully yours...John..Ex Ferguson System Service Engineer Rtd. (grin)

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Jerry/MT

11-09-2006 12:15:05




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 Re: TO30 Hydraulic oil type in reply to John (UK), 11-09-2006 08:55:23  
John, is this 15W30 an engine grade oil that's is used in the tans/hydraulic system or is a special use oil. My gut feel is that it is engine oil but I want to be sure. I've not seen 15W30 hear in the States but 15W40 is a standard diesel engine oil and is commonly used on diesel powered farm equipment and trucks. I use a trans/hydraulic oil meeting Ford spec's M2C-134D in my Ford 4610 and planned to use it in the TO-30 when I change out the fluid. It's lighter than the 90W Gl-1 so it should be better in coldweather and should have the water dispersant additives of a this class of oils.

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Dan S (NY)

11-09-2006 09:36:54




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 Re: TO30 Hydraulic oil type in reply to John (UK), 11-09-2006 08:55:23  
John, I would like to thank you for posting about using the multiweight oil instead of GL1 in the past. Based on your information, last weekend I changed out the GL1 in my MF50 for 15w40 as 15w30 can�t easily be found in the US. The hydraulics now work MUCH better in the cooler temps we are now getting. They worked fine all summer with the GL1, but on some recent 30 degree days, they had slowed to a crawl, and I couldn�t imagine what they would be like at 10 degrees later this winter. I expect my MF50 is even more affected by the cold as the thicker oil has to get through the hydraulic filter, unlike my TO20. I should have thought to use motor oil before as my stepfather has been using it in his David Brown 770 for 40 years with no problems, but oh well. Anyway, thanks again�

Dan

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John (UK)

11-09-2006 10:12:48




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 Re: TO30 Hydraulic oil type in reply to Dan S (NY), 11-09-2006 09:36:54  
Dan, We have problems with the TE20's (and TO20/30's) in the cold weather. Users in Canada and Norway/Sweden/Finland have had this problem for years so I asked Castrol here in the UK what they thought. I told them what the problem was and that the oil had to be suitable for world-wide use, they agreed that the GL1 90W would be too thick in the cold weather and was surprised that people still used it now when there were so many alternatives available, they came up with 15W/30. I have heard before about that being unavailable or difficult to obtain in US and Canada but the 15W/40 is still better than the original as those who have changed over to it will tell you, now you too have found out for yourself. Unfortunately we have a few who because it isn't written in the original Instruction Book for the tractor don't like to change, but technology has moved on a long way so why not take advantage of what they have on offer if it makes life easier. I must say that the ones who do not like to change are usually the ones who do not have a particularly cold climate in winter so really it doesn't trouble them so they are not really interested in other peoples problems. I now what you mean about the DB770, it would not like that thick oil, it has some very small orifices in some of the valves in the Control Valve assy. and it would not be able to push the oil through when it was really cold, it needs to be able to do that to balance them...John

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Jeff-oh

11-09-2006 05:17:13




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 Re: TO30 Hydraulic oil type in reply to Jerry/MT, 11-08-2006 19:14:40  
NAPA part Number is 65-205 5 gallon bucket (call first) they probally do not stock it. But can get it delevered on the daily truck from the warehouse in a day or so.

Jeff



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Tom in Sc

11-08-2006 19:20:57




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 Re: TO30 Hydraulic oil type in reply to Jerry/MT, 11-08-2006 19:14:40  
Thanks Jerry,
I'll go to NAPA tomorrow. I'll search a little harder in the archives for the part number. This web sight is great!!



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