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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
:

genny cut out or voltage regulator?

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mark from the f

08-14-2006 14:48:22




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Dropped off my genny at the shop for an overhaul-I also took the VR with me. The fella at the shop told me to replace the VR with a cut out. First of all, there were only 2 terminals and I will be having 4 wires hanging from the tractor> He explained the where the large wire from the back of VR goes, and told me be would run a wire from the genny to itself to take care of the field terminal. That leaves a wire from my amp guage and a wire from my ignition switch homeless. Would these both go on the remaining terminal?
AND, are these things better than the old VR? They really aren't very cool looking and do not use the same mounting pattern in battery tray. Is this something I should go for, or is the old black box still a keeper> Thanks,Mark

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Bob (Australia)

08-15-2006 04:55:07




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 Re: genny cut out or voltage regulator? in reply to mark from the fort, 08-14-2006 14:48:22  
Mark. I can email you the wiring diagram for the TEA20 but not the TO20 tractors. I doubt there is any big differences. Post here or email me if you want the diagram and your email address.



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Gerald J.

08-14-2006 17:41:06




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 Re: genny cut out or voltage regulator? in reply to mark from the fort, 08-14-2006 14:48:22  
If your generator has three brushes, it can get along without the regulator providing you can watch for the battery bubbling from overcharge and turn on the lights to divert charge. Otherwise the properly working voltage rgulator preserves the battery by avoiding overcharge. Overcharging the battery is as hard on it as not charging it at all, maybe harder, either leads to short battery life.

The generator output should go to the ammeter post away from the one that connects to the battery. The ignition switch should get power from that same ammeter terminal away from the battery connection.

Gerald J.

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mark from the fort

08-14-2006 17:59:33




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 Re: genny cut out or voltage regulator? in reply to Gerald J., 08-14-2006 17:41:06  
Thanks Gerald, Let me run this by ya, the diagram states for a 6V pos. ground (what I have), the two studs are marked "BAT" and "ARM"--I assumed the larger guage wire coming off of generator armature goes to "ARM". The one marked "BAT" would get wire off of ignition switch AND remaining wire from ammeter? The field wire would be taken care of by the short piece he said he would install on the end of the generator. ? Am I at least in the ball park? What is the benefit of these things if they can do harm to a battery? How do I monitor a sealed battery? And lastly, will the lighting for a tractor need to connect on to this thing also,? if so, where? I'm not real interested in this device if it has little to no benefits--I just now learned the wiring basics (using a VR) and now this. Thanks for your time, Mark

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Gerald J.

08-14-2006 20:33:18




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 Re: genny cut out or voltage regulator? in reply to mark from the fort, 08-14-2006 17:59:33  
The benefit of the cutout instead of regulator is wiring simplicity. The damage it will do to the sealed battery is significant. Its not worth the simplicity.

There's a sturdy wire (10 gauge probably) from the battery terminal on the starter solenoid to the ammeter. The charging wire from the regulator or cutout (the regulator contains a cutout besides a voltage regulator element and maybe a current regulator element) goes to the other ammeter terminal. The wire from the ignition switch comes from that same ammeter terminal that the charge wire hooks to. The light switch comes off that same terminal.

The cutout with a three brush current limited generator was the standard for tractors and cars in the 30s. And it was hard on batteries because it tended to overcharge them.

Standards for voltage regulators on generators allow a wider range of charging voltages than is good for sealed batteries. A good solid state regulator that holds the voltage to 14.20 volts plus or minus .1 volt is good, and one of the reasons an alternator makes for longer battery life. In the 60s the SAE standard for voltage regulators allowed charging voltages over a range of 13 to 15 volts. Some didn't quite charge the battery, some fried it.

The voltage regulator is the more modern charging system and its better for the battery.

The cutout works kind of like a diode, but it has lower voltage drop when connected. Trouble is that it allows up to 10 amps current into the slowly running generator before it disconnects so when the engine isn't run fast, it may actually discharge the battery. That's another feature of the alternator, the diode bridge performs the cutout function with no back current which improves the system efficiency at low engine speeds.

Back about 1968, I put a 12 volt VW engine in a 6 volt bug. To use the same lights and stuff, I built a solid state voltage regulator for 6 volts with a diode for cutout. It worked very well and the next new battery lasted 6 years. It treated the battery far better than the factory 6 volt regulator had.

Gerald J.

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mark from the fort

08-14-2006 14:55:05




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 Re: genny cut out or voltage regulator? in reply to mark from the fort, 08-14-2006 14:48:22  
Me again, I may be wrong, but my tractor does NOT have lights right now, does the wiring for lights enter into this 2 terminal dilemma as well?



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souNdguy

08-15-2006 07:43:03




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 Re: genny cut out or voltage regulator? in reply to mark from the fort, 08-14-2006 14:55:05  
You really want the vr... The cutout will work on the 3rd brush genny.. but can lead to overcharging.

if it is a 2-brush genny.. then it will deffinately be overcharging as it will be running presumably full field..

Many VR are only int he 25$-40$ range... save yourself headache.. get one.. don't let him remove your 3rd brush and rewire .. etc.

Soundguy



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