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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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Odd charging on TO-20

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RP2

06-09-2006 21:10:05




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I just replaced the voltage regulator on my 1951 TO-20 (6volt positive ground, original generator). The old VR was just worn out and had to be thumped to start charging and then at only a few amps.

With the new regulator it charges at about 10amps at low rpm and this drops to about 1 amp or less at high rpm. I expected just the opposite. Did I do something wrong or is this common?

Also, I notice a significant amount of sparking at the generator brushes when the amps are up. Is this common also? I never had more than 2-3 amps before so I'm new to healthy charging rates.

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Mike Hornberger

06-11-2006 16:26:15




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 Re: Odd charging on TO-20 in reply to RP2, 06-09-2006 21:10:05  
I'm speaking from a theoretical standpoint only here - not from much voltage regulator experience and definatly not from experience with TO-20 regulators... But, I think in most old regulators, there are three relays - cutout relay, voltage regulator relay, and current regulator relay. The cutout relay prevents the battery from discharging through the generator when the generator is not generating. The voltage relay is supposed to protect the battery and other components against over voltage from the generator. When the voltage gets too high, the relay opens and charging stops momentarily. The current relay provides over current protection to the generator during high current loads. When the charge current gets too high, the relay opens and sends the current through a series coil winding (basically a big power resistor) which slows down charging current.

Now here's my theory: There is a higher charge load than 12 amps in the system. At low RPMs, the generator is not generating enough current for the current regulator to kick in so you see the 12 amps. At high RPMs, more current is provided to the charge circuit, the current relay kicks in and redirects the charge through the series coil which limits the current down to about half an amp.

In other words, I think there is a problem somewhere else in the system (lights, battery, ignition coil, shorted wiring, etc.) that is trying to draw too much current and the current regulator is just doing its job of regulating the current.

Don't know how you could prove this... Can you open up the regulator and watch the current relay open up as you speed up the RPMs? Or measure voltage accross the series coil and watch for a change from 0V to 6V as you idle up?

Mike

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RP2

06-11-2006 21:51:05




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 Re: Odd charging on TO-20 in reply to Mike Hornberger, 06-11-2006 16:26:15  
Mike,

Interesting ideas. It's a two relay regulator but both of them seem to have both a small diameter winding and a large diameter one (heavy and fine winding). I'll try this weekend to take some voltage readings on the windings.



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Jerry/MT

06-10-2006 19:30:13




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 Re: Odd charging on TO-20 in reply to RP2, 06-09-2006 21:10:05  
I have a 12 V system on my TO-30. It charges at really high rate after a start and then tapers down, independent of the engine speed. I agree your situation seems odd, but a lot of the charging rate depends on the condition of the battery,too. If it's fully charged, there should be some small amount of current to the battery. If it's discharged then it will have a large amount of current til it's full tapering off to near zero when fully charged. it shouldn't be too dependent on speed above a certain speed, only dependent on whether the battery needs a big charge or a small one.
Did you polarize the system when you replaced the regulator? Look in the archives for how to polarize the system. It's been so long since I worked on generaters that I'd probably give you the wrong info.

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RP2

06-10-2006 22:37:42




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 Re: Odd charging on TO-20 in reply to Jerry/MT, 06-10-2006 19:30:13  
Jerry,

Yeah I polarized it. The battery is about 2 months old and after about an hour of brush hogging with the new regulator it was floating at about 8 volts so it was past fully charged. :-)

I guess I can move the third brush back to turn down the maximum amps and volts. It just seems weird that the charge rate goes way up at low rpm. At just above idle I get about 12 amps and at full throttle it's about 1/2 an amp.

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souNdguy

06-12-2006 07:37:41




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 Re: Odd charging on TO-20 in reply to RP2, 06-10-2006 22:37:42  
3rd brush gennies generally charge less ( are slightly less efficient ) at the upper end o f the rpm range... And all gennies charge poorly at the lower end of the rpm range.

Soundguy



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