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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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pto-horsepower

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pork chop

05-04-2006 08:06:48




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would like to know what horsepower model te20, has, if you can help us would like to hear from you thanks porkchop




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John (UK)

05-05-2006 05:57:10




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 Re: pto-horsepower in reply to pork chop, 05-04-2006 08:06:48  
Here is the test report for that tractor:-
TEST NO. 392
Model: Ferguson TE-20 (no test available for the TO-20)
Harry Ferguson Ltd., Coventry, England
DATE TESTED: April 26 to May 10 1948
During 67-1/2 hours of engine operating time for this test, no repairs or adjustments were recorded except for replacing the fan belt, along with removing and cleaning the cylinder head at one point during the test. The TE-20 featured a Continental four-cylinder I-head engine rated at 1,750 and 2,000 rpm. It carried a 3-3/16 x 3-3/4 inch bore and stroke. Accessories included a Lucas coil and starter, Delco-Remy distributor, and Marvel-Schebler TSX-312 carburetor. Standard equipment also included 10-28 rear and 4.00-19 inch front tires. Advertised speeds of 2.9, 3.99, 5.5 and 11.49 mph were used, with second gear being selected for Test H. This test revealed a rated drawbar load of 16.35 horsepower, along with a pull of 1,666 pounds at 3.68 mph and slippage of 4.42%. Fuel economy at rated drawbar load was 8.99 horsepower hours per gallon of gasoline. Test C for operating maximum load yielded an economy of 10.57 horsepower hours per gallons of gasoline at a load of 24.02 belt horsepower. At a rated brake load of 22.59 horsepower, fuel economy was recorded at 10.34 horsepower hours per gallon. Also of note, the TE-20 made a maximum low-gear pull of 2,650 pounds in Test G, but with 754 pounds of added weight for each rear wheel. Bare tractor weight was 2,760 pounds.
TE-20 : Test #392 - 1948 - Gas - draw 20.70 hp - belt 25.41 hp

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Jerry/MT

05-05-2006 13:30:23




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 Re: pto-horsepower in reply to John (UK), 05-05-2006 05:57:10  
It's interesting to note the the Ferguson Shop Manual quotes "corrected" horsepower (I presume corrected from measured test conditions to 29.92 in HgA or 14.696 psia atmospheric pressure and most likely 59oF atmospheric temperature.) while the Nebraska test report quotes abolute horsepower. "Corrected" is the more proper way to report horspower for comparison because it puts everybody's numbers at the same reference ambient conditions.

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gshadel

05-05-2006 07:39:47




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 You know... in reply to John (UK), 05-05-2006 05:57:10  
I never really understood the difference between "belt HP" and "drawbar HP", and how they are calculated. When someone asks me the HP of my TO-20, I say "20 HP!"

From reading John's post... Can I assume belt HP is engine HP calculated using engine rpm's and torque? Can I assume drawbar HP is calculated using the drawbar load and speed? Not sure where the slippage factors in, but sounds like drawbar HP can be improved by improving traction, like loading tires, wider tires, etc. ?

So if I install a 350 HP engine on my TO-20, I'm still going to have ~16 drawbar HP unless I do something to improve traction?

How close am I?

thanks
George

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Jim in OH

05-05-2006 12:05:03




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 Re: You know... in reply to gshadel, 05-05-2006 07:39:47  
Just to add more confusion.. and a little history

Hp has been quoted over the years in different ways. As far as I know, the Nebraska tests have been pretty consistent in using "belt"(or "PTO") Hp for comparison. Then they have used a consistent measurement of drawbar Hp in their published results to indicate how much you can get to the ground while pulling. If you look at a bunch of tests you start to get the picture. Unless it is a heavy well balanced tractor, there is usually some unballasted test that has relatively poor results at the drawbar, then the tractor manufacturer adds ballast (probably pre-determined earlier by their own testing) to produce a more favorable result. Adding too much weight, particularly in the front just makes matters worse, but the optimum weight distributed correctly will optimize this drawbar horsepower.

But engine manufacturers also quote Hp meaning "brake horsepower". This is measured speed and torque (as you suggested) with just the engine in a test stand. But this too can be very confusing and misleading wihout knowing what accessories were included. During the muscle car years when horsepower was king, it was often quoted with high numbers that not only did not include alternator, but might not include the fan, or the water and fuel pumps either. Later the standards groups, like SAE, put the kabosh on this unrealistic method and the Hp numbers tumbled. Then add smog pumps and other smog detuning, the numbers looked even worse when they weren't necessarily that bad when it came to real working conditions.

Jim in OH

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Jim in OH

05-05-2006 10:26:05




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 Pretty much right on.... in reply to gshadel, 05-05-2006 07:39:47  
Hook your tactor to a (big) tree and you have "zero" drawbar horsepower if it isn"t moving. And you are right, it is measured/calculated as horizontal pull times forward speed.

Slippage is one of the biggest losses in the tractor tests and more weight may help, but also there are rolling resistance (where too much weight is counter productive).

Belt horsepower is good if you have a pulley without too much gearing (like a JD 2-cyl); PTO would come next since it just has a few gears. But if your belt is on your PTO (like Fergies), your belt is probably less than your PTO.

Jim in OH

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John (UK)

05-05-2006 10:20:45




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 Re: You know... in reply to gshadel, 05-05-2006 07:39:47  
You might find this useful:-
Link

Antique Tractor Resource Page - Resource AreaIn 1959, due to the lack of demand for belt-driven machines, the belt hp test was discontinued, and maximum horsepower tests were now taken from the PTO



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Jerry/MT

05-04-2006 19:21:44




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 Re: pto-horsepower in reply to pork chop, 05-04-2006 08:06:48  
Since the TE-20 and the TO-20 share the same Continental Z120 engine, I'd say the PTO horsepower was the same. The manual lists the TO-20 horspower as"... 26.5 corrected belt horsepower." (Nebraska Test 392)



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