Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Attention Forum Users: On the 28th of December 2023 at 9:00am Central Time, we will be taking the forums down for maintenance while we prepare the new forums for your use. Please click here for more information.

Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
:

Rebuilding Engine (TO-30)

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
Jim in OH

03-08-2006 10:50:50




Report to Moderator

I have the engine out and head/pan off. It looks like 100% original (all std. parts), with cylinders beyond service limits; the rest not too bad. No cracks, some evidence of small leaks at bottom of sleeves. It looks like I should probably do a complete rebuild. Now a few questions:

1- Are all engine rebuild kits the same? (in terms of quality) What is the best QUALITY, not looking for best bargin. I"d like to use the 3-3/8 sleeves (134 cu.in.) Who are the manufacturers of such? (and then the retailers) Comments/recommendations?

2- What is the concensus on block cleaning? I"d send it out, but I wasn"t necessarily planning on having any machine work. What about cam bearings? (are they inserts? .. I"ll have to check the books, but I think not) Any comments of recommendations?

3- Oil pump kits: I"ve heard some difficulties with this rebuild. What special tools do I need? comments?

4- Head will be rebuilt by machine shop. comments?

5- Crank is std. and not scored, and at the minimum. Having mixed feelings about the necessity of having it reground. Not a cost issue, but it seems that if I do this, then I should also have the cam (and lifters) reground. Any other comments or remarks?

Jim

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
Jim in OH

03-09-2006 16:00:59




Report to Moderator
 Thank you for your responses in reply to Jim in OH, 03-08-2006 10:50:50  
Thank you. I appreciate your responses. Right now, I am inclined to go with the complete kit (once I am sure of crankpin sizes) and I may have the block cleaned when the head is being rebuilt. I'l do all of the assembly myself I have drill press, valve compressor, ring compressor, etc. from volvo days but was doing things very low budget back then. If this was back then, I'd probably cut the ridge out, throw in a set of rings, hand lap the valves and put it back together. I was a little leary of the oil pump, and Georges' (both) comments helped there and with the cleaning issue. Also, glad to hear feed back on the TISCO parts and all of your experience. Jim

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
gshadel

03-10-2006 04:34:07




Report to Moderator
 Re: Thank you for your responses in reply to Jim in OH, 03-09-2006 16:00:59  
Jim, that's exactly what I had planned on my TO, cut off the ridge, pop out the pistons, install new rings, lap the valves.... I got carried away and went way beyond my initial plan.

Funny thing is... I have the exact same plan for an '89 VW to get it running good again to give to my 16 yr. old. Hope I can stick to the plan and not get carried away like I did on my TO.... we shall see.

Geo.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
gshadel

03-09-2006 08:29:49




Report to Moderator
 Re: Rebuilding Engine (TO-30) in reply to Jim in OH, 03-08-2006 10:50:50  
Jim, I did a full rebuild on my TO-20 a few years back. Learned a TON about your very questions, and will answer best I can.

1. Definitely get a kit, don't buy parts and pieces, the kits are a better deal, you will save $$$, even if you don't use all the parts in the kit. I shopped around for rebuild kits a good bit, All the engine rebuild kits I found (including here) were Tisco kits. The kit was good quality, complete, no complaints whatever. Shop around! prices vary a lot! There are a dozen combination of rebuild kits. I recommend tearing the engine ALL the way down, decide exactly what you need, THEN get the best kit combination your needs. I didn't do that and spent a lot more $$$ as a result. I started with a plan to just replace rings/pistons/sleeves, and got a lower rebuild kit from the MF dealer (didn't have to pay shipping so it was cheaper than here). After I got into it, I decided to rebuilt the head, then decided to go with new valves. So, I bought a upper rebuild kit from here, then valves (here), then decided to replace crank bearing shells, water pump, and other parts most from here... Once I got started, I couldn't stop!

2. I cleaned my own block, After I stripped it down and pulled the sleeves, I cleaned with water, degreaser, drill & wire wheel brushes. Took a solid afternoon to clean it, but it was basically free. After spending big $$$ on rebuild parts, I was looking to save some $$$ where I could. Turned out quite nice. Easy enough to do yourself. Cam rides in the block. The clearences on mine was borderline, but tolerable. I have heard of guys that have their cams welded-up and turned down to meet tolerence, costs $$$, if you don't absolutely need it, don't worry about it.

3.I rebuilt my oil pump too. Tisco rebuild kit from here, again. The kit was good quality. It can be done without special tools, unless you decide to press and ream the new bronze bushings that come in the kit. I didn't feel I needed that so didn't do it. The difficulty is that the aluminum drive gear has to be pressed on the pump shaft, then drilled 1/2 in the aluminum, 1/2 in the steel shaft, tapped, and a set screw screwed-in to hold the gear in place. Getting the gear pressed on straight is important, drilling the steel/aluminum is almost impossible by hand...I tried. They do sell a special tool to help with all that, but it can be done without it, with patience. I was able to drive the gear on by clamping the pump in a vise, using a socket as a mandel and carefully tapping the gear on the shaft with a hammer. I used the neighbors drill press to drill the set screw hole after realizing I wasn't going to be able to do a good job by hand. Tapped the hole with a regular hand tap. The rebuild kit includes new relief valve spring, plunger, etc. which you will want also. 4. I stripped my head, took to a machine shop to check for cracks, warp, polish-up the seats, and press in my new valve guides. If you take the head to a shop, don't waste a bunch of time cleaning the head first. I did, they cleaned it anyway, and did a much better job than me. Cost me 70$ to do all that, they painted it too. When I got the head back, it looked like brand new. I was thrilled! Jim, don't know where your at in the Buckeye state, the machine shop I used was the NAPA machine shop in Mt. Vernon, OH. They have a lot of experience working on AG engines, and really did a fine job for me. Since I used new valves, etc. the head rebuild was EASY. The only special tool you need is a valve spring compressor, I rented one for free from the local AutoZone store. I don't know what a shop charges to do the whole head rebuild, it might be a wash to do as I did, use new valves, and rebuild the head yourself. 5. Sounds like your crank is fine. Take a good look at your bearing shells. Mine were pitted real bad, I replaced them, that was another ~$90. Bearing shells are not part of a rebuild kit. Also, DO the plastigauge check on your crank clearences as specified in the manual. It takes time, but plastigauge is the TRUE measure of your crank tolerences as it factors in both crank and bearing wear. If the plastiguage looks good, just put'er back together with your existing parts as is. I plastigauged my crank and old shells, then again with the new shells. I gained ~.001 - .002" or so in tighter clearance, and was right in tolerence by just replacing the bearing shells and doing nothing with the crank.

Hope that helps.

I found in my case I had a couple cracks in my block. Very discouraging, I finally got over my initial sense of "all hope is lost", and figured out a way to fix it. I work at an adhesive manufacturer that makes industrial/commercial adhesives. Epoxies, urathanes, and Methacrylate based adhesives, with applications in the commercial fields that would shock you where metal parts are glued, rather than welded, and stonger because of it. Cast iron is a great example where the right adhesive can be better than welding/brazing. Anyway, after consulting the technical guys, I decided to patch my block with a couple different kinds of epoxies. I JUST finished my website. Here is my story!

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Mike Mohrhauser

03-08-2006 16:03:39




Report to Moderator
 Re: Rebuilding Engine (TO-30) in reply to Jim in OH, 03-08-2006 10:50:50  
Jim,
Having gone through the same thing with my MF-35 that you are about to do with your TO-30. I would recommend that you get your parts from this site. They are TISCO brand and seem to be of good quality at a very reasonable price. Get the complete engine rebuild kit. That's less expensive than trying to buy a part here and a part there.You might check and be sure it has the front and rear main seals. You might have to buy them seperately, but since you have the engine out be sure to change them.
If you want to get things clean you can use brake cleaning spray. It's real good for degreasing.
I replaced my cam only because the gear that drives the distributor had some chips in it. I didn't have the lifters refaced but they all looked good. I hope I don't have any problems with them later. They sound real good now.

If you have the shop manual you shouldn't have any problems.

Mike M.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Jerry/MT

03-08-2006 13:57:16




Report to Moderator
 Re: Rebuilding Engine (TO-30) in reply to Jim in OH, 03-08-2006 10:50:50  
Jim, I think that those small leaks at the bottom of the sleeves are typical.There is an o ring or something that probably dried out and cracked down there I think.
I believe the cam runs "journal to block" and there are no bearing inserts. I just looked in my manual and parts book and there are no views that show any cam bearings. The books says that you measure and if the tolerance are exceeded you replace the cam. I would call an overhaul shop and see if when they rebuild one of these if they maybe build some inserts for the block.

Regarding block cleaning, it's always nice to have a clean, dry, block to work on. Having said that, having it professionally cleaned, in my opinion, depends on what it looks like in the innards. If the water jacket is full of rust and/or lime and there's baked on sludge, ya' might wannna' have it tanked. I don't think it's that expensive and even if you don't have to have any machine work done it'll make everthing squeaky clean. They're gonna' do it to your cylinder head. But you have to strip it down to just a block. Your call.

Why would you grind the the crank? I don't understand your logic about grinding the cam and lifters if you grind the crank. If nothings scored and the journals are within the roundness tolerances, can't you just replace the bearings? Do you have a factory manual? They discuss this issue.
I had my head check for cracks and flatness and rebuilt with new guides and all new valves and rotators on the exhaust because my valves were shot and so where the guides and rotators. Take a good look at the wear surfaces on the rocker arms and consider replacing those (including the adjusters screws)that show excessive wear. Be prepared for a big bill. I had mine done in 1996 and it cost me >$400 as I recall.
Can't help you with the kit. My engine was so badly worn ( 3/16" end play in the crankshaft! It's supposed to be 0.003-0.007")and I needed the tractor to work. I didn't want to be running to the mahine shop with every component to have machine work done so I opted for a remanufactured short block. gshadel redid his as have a few other folks on this forum so I'm sure you'll get some info from them. Good Luck.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Jim in OH

03-08-2006 14:27:18




Report to Moderator
 Re: Rebuilding Engine (TO-30) in reply to Jerry/MT, 03-08-2006 13:57:16  
Basically the logic (for grinding cam with the crank) was just for "completeness" to "new"... I've since seen that new cams are about 100+ bux so probably it is not worth grinding except maybe for the cam followers... basically, I would then have what you got with the rebuilt short block...but right now I am leaning towards just putting it back together std. (with new bearings) and no regrind of either cam of crank. The inside of the block has a thin layer of some baked on carbon like material, but no sludge or significant coolant deposits

I have the manual.

I'll let the head guy look at the rocker end surfaces, but I have had those resurfaced with good luck (on a volvo B-20) so I am expecting that I will not need to replace them.

I appreciate the comments... Jim

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
George in Spokane

03-08-2006 16:32:17




Report to Moderator
 Re: Rebuilding Engine (TO-30) in reply to Jim in OH, 03-08-2006 14:27:18  
I just rebuilt my z134 TO-35. I didn't have the block cleaned. I just pressure washed it in the driveway.

This was a mistake. After running the engine for a few minutes I had an unrelated problem that caused me to tear down the engine. When I looked at my brand new rod and main bearings they were all scored!



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy