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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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Need clarification about ballast resistor

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DennisPinOhio

11-26-2005 08:09:10




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I recall someone saying that the ballast resistor is only needed to protect the 6v coil when switching to 12v.
If I put a 12v coil on, can I remove the ballast resistor?
Thanks in advance for any help.




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Dennis West

12-01-2005 05:39:45




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 Re: Need clarification about ballast resistor in reply to DennisPinOhio, 11-26-2005 08:09:10  
Thanks, Dell. I'll pick up one of those NAPA coils and remove my ballast resistor.



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Dennis West

11-29-2005 10:46:29




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 Re: Need clarification about ballast resistor in reply to DennisPinOhio, 11-26-2005 08:09:10  
John T,
Thanks for all the help, but I still think I'm a little confused. I've got the 12 volt conversion, and I used a new 12 volt coil labeled "Use with external ballast resistor". Would I be better off if I changed the coil out with another 12 volt coil that does not require the resistor?
Thanks again, Dennis West



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Dell (WA)

11-30-2005 18:12:13




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 Re: Need clarification about ballast resistor in reply to Dennis West, 11-29-2005 10:46:29  
Dennis..... ...I always recommend using a "real" 12v coil that uses NO RESISTORS when I do 12v conversions. Recommend the roundcan NAPA IC-14SB ignition coil. $15 (cheap) Uses the same ignition points and gap and condenser that the 6v coil/distributor does. Same sparkies and gap too..... .Dell



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Griz

11-28-2005 23:16:57




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 Re: Need clarification about ballast resistor in reply to DennisPinOhio, 11-26-2005 08:09:10  
I thought the ballast resistor was used to reduce the voltage/current across the points after the the engine started. Atleast that was the way older cars used a ballast resistor. Full voltage for start and reduced voltage while running to save the points. My To20 only uses two switch positions off and run and doesn"t use a ballast resistor. If I wanted to get more life from the points, I could wire up a toggle switch to kick in the ballast resistor after the engine has started. Unless my To20 has been modified, Harry meant for it to run without a ballast resistor.

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John T

11-29-2005 07:42:14




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 Re: Need clarification about ballast resistor in reply to Griz, 11-28-2005 23:16:57  
Griz, youre pretty much right on. The bottom line and limiting factor is the amount of current the points can switch so as to not burn up prematurely which is in the 4 to 5 amps range. Coils and the points which switch their current on and off are current devices, not so much voltage devices.

In order to limit points current to the 4 amp or so range, the TOTAL resistance in the ignitions primary circuit needs to be, therefore, around 1.5 ohms on a 6 volt system or 3 ohms on a 12 volt system. Thats the reason why if you have 12 votls but use a 6 volt coil you MUST add an external series Ballast Resisistor as the coil is around 1.5 ohmes and the ballast near the same ohms so the points just switch 4 amps or so. However, if you use a full 12 volt rated coil that has 3 ohms of primary resistance, then NO external ballast is used.

Nowwwww wwwww when cranking the battery voltage drops, so if the tractor is equipped with a starting ballast by pass circuit (as mnay are) ONLY while cranking the coil sees unballasted battery voltage fro a hotter startign sprak but then she runs with the ballst in series so a 6 volt coil just draws the 4 amps or so to keep it form overhearign plus extending the life of the points. However, if one uses a full 12 volt rated coil, the ballast by pass system isnt available as it is when you use a 6 volt coil plus an external ballst on a 12 volt system. Its true on a 12 volt using a 6 volt coil and a ballast, the coil starts on battery voltage (12 less the drop caused by starter motor) but then runs on 6 volts.

John T

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Dennis P in Ohio

11-28-2005 15:07:36




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 Re: Need clarification about ballast resistor in reply to DennisPinOhio, 11-26-2005 08:09:10  
This is fantastic!!!! I mean all of the great responses and knowledge being shared is priceless.
A great big thanks to y"all and I am happy to say I feel secure in removing the B.R. and running a 12 volt coil. I am glad I can do this with peace of mind, as ballast resistors do fail, so it"s good to remove a potential problem.
Thanks again.



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John T

11-29-2005 07:45:50




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 Re: Need clarification about ballast resistor in reply to Dennis P in Ohio, 11-28-2005 15:07:36  
Dennis, no problem but just remember, if you toss an old 6 volt coil and ballast resistor and want to run a 12 volt coil JUST BE SURE ITS REALLY A 12 VOLT COIL (around 3 ohms primary resistance) AND NOT A COIL LABELED "12 VOLTS FOR USE WITH AN EXTERNAL BALLAST RESISTOR". You need a real and full rated 12 volt coils that DOES NOT require any external ballast.

John T



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DennisPinOhio

11-30-2005 11:10:03




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 Re: Need clarification about ballast resistor in reply to John T, 11-29-2005 07:45:50  
Thanks, John;
The coil I have on hand is from my old "77 F250 truck. It is an Accel high performance type coil and is a fully rated 12 volt coil.
Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.



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John T

11-28-2005 08:07:18




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 Re: Need clarification about ballast resistor in reply to DennisPinOhio, 11-26-2005 08:09:10  
Dennis, HOLD EVERYTHING, based on your latest post..... ..... ..... ....

Ifffff ff the coil is labeled "12 volts for use WITH an external ballst resistor"

Then YESSSSS SS you need still need a Ballast on a 12 volt system as those are in reality 6 volt coils.

If the coil is a full 12 volt rated (carrying no such use ballast label) THEN YOU DONT USE A BALLAST

A true 12 volt coil will measure around 2.5 to 3.5 ohms in its primary as measured between its lil + and - terminals while a 6 volt will be more like 1.5 to 2 ohms. The limiting factor is the current the points have to switch, and thats in the 4 to 5 amps range so they wont burn up too soon.

John T retired electrical engineer in Indiana

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Gene Stevens

11-27-2005 18:49:59




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 Re: Need clarification about ballast resistor in reply to DennisPinOhio, 11-26-2005 08:09:10  
I think you still need the resistor for the points unless you change them to 12v also. Note...I did say think...



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John T

11-28-2005 07:58:59




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 Re: Need clarification about ballast resistor in reply to Gene Stevens, 11-27-2005 18:49:59  
Gene and Dennis, the points are a "current switching device" its the current through them (that they switch on or off) NOT the voltage across them that is the critical or limiting factor. The points are basically the same REGARDLESS if on a 6 or 12 volt tractor as the Voltage Withstand rating between their componenst is FAR HIGHER then 6 or 12 volts anyway. Thats the distances and insulation necessary to keep the voltage differences far enough apart or insulated so it dont arc current across anywwhere. The condensor is likewise rated way higher then 6 or 12 volts and is basically the same on either system. it stores energy by accumulating electrons on its plates and has to have good enough insulation between them to prevent arcing across.

If you use a 12 volt rated coil PLUS an unwanted external ballast resistor, the spark will be weak cuz youre expending n wasting energy across the ballast as opposed to the coil where its needed to absorb n store then transfer it across the spark plugs gap to better ingite the fuel. YOU DONT WANNA WASTE HEAT ENERGY ON THE BALLAST

Its your tractor and your free to use whatever and any ballast you desire, but I promise you if you use a ballast PLUS an full 12 volt rated coil on a 12 volt system, YOU WILL HAVE A WEAK SPARK. However, the points n condensor n coil would last longer fer sure.

Take care yall n God Bless

John T, retired electrical engineer in Indiana

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Dennis P in Ohio

11-28-2005 05:14:47




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 Re: Need clarification about ballast resistor in reply to Gene Stevens, 11-27-2005 18:49:59  
I"m glad you said that, because I fear damage to the points, condensor, etc.
I guess there is no conclusion...yet. I will wait for other opinions before taking any action.
I must admit I am confused.
Thanks to all for your input.
Dennis



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Dennis W.

11-27-2005 18:28:54




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 Re: Need clarification about ballast resistor in reply to DennisPinOhio, 11-26-2005 08:09:10  

I'm using one of those 12 volt coils that says to be used with a ballast resistor, so I installed the resistor also. Are you saying that I should disconnect the resistor? My TO20 is a 12 volt one wire alternator conversion.
Thanks...



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John T

11-28-2005 08:05:59




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 Re: Need clarification about ballast resistor in reply to Dennis W., 11-27-2005 18:28:54  
Dennis, HOLD EVERYTHING, based on your latest post..... ..... ..... ....

Ifffff ff the coil is labeled "12 volts for use WITH an external ballst resistor"

Then YESSSSS SS you need still need a Ballast on a 12 volt system as those are in reality 6 volt coils.

If the coil is a full 12 volt rated (carrying no such use ballast label) THEN YOU DONT USE A BALLAST

A true 12 volt coil will measure around 2.5 to 3.5 ohms in its primary as measured between its lil + and - terminals while a 6 volt will be more like 1.5 to 2 ohms. The limiting factor is the current the points have to switch, and thats in the 4 to 5 amps range so they wont burn up too soon.

John T

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John T

11-26-2005 10:25:40




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 Re: Need clarification about ballast resistor in reply to DennisPinOhio, 11-26-2005 08:09:10  
Dennis, YES indeed, if you have a 12 volt system and a full 12 volt rated coil, DO NOT USE ANY BALLAST RESISTOR. Just be sure and NOT use one of those coils labeled "12 volts for use with an external ballast, however.

John T



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John T

11-28-2005 07:46:14




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 Re: Need clarification about ballast resistor in reply to John T, 11-26-2005 10:25:40  
Bill, there is some ringing and oscillation going on between the coils primary and the condensor when the points open, it takes an oscilloscope to look at whats really going on and its all the more complex AC circuit stuff, but as far as the straight DC current component and power and heat and energy factors, you still wanna run a 12 volt coil at 12 volts and a 6 at 6 volts. i.e. no external series ballast when using a 12 volt coil on 12 volts.

Take care, this make any sense to ya???

John T

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bill pilson

11-27-2005 02:49:43




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 Re: Need clarification about ballast resistor in reply to John T, 11-26-2005 10:25:40  
John,

doesn't that still ALLOW for some "electrical harmonics" feeding back into the ignition system if you don't use a ballast resistor?



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Dell (WA)

11-28-2005 08:55:10




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 Re: Need clarification about ballast resistor in reply to bill pilson, 11-27-2005 02:49:43  
Bill..... ...yep, but so what? Don't hurt nuttin. Yer battery swamps them out. Ballast resistor has NUTTIN to do with electrical circuit ringing. It only controls the "volts" going TO the coil by reducing the AMPS. Ohms Law and Kirchhoffs Law STILL RULE.

Remember the FIRST radio transmitters were a spark-gap. And many a ship-board radio operator was called "Sparkie". This was in the days of ironships and wooden men; before Flemming valves (vacuum tubes) and Shockley transistors. I often "hear" bad ignition wires but seldom bad sparkplugs on my cheap AM radio.

That is why modern sparkie wires are carboncore, the fragile carbon resistance cuts/dampens the RF ringing so yer cheap transistor car radio don't hear the ultra high sparkies of modern ignition systems. And that is also why you need to used oldfashioned coppercore sparkie wires in yer Fergie tractor ignition system for hottter sparkies and eazier starting..... ....Dell

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