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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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TO-20 rebuild?

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Eric (MI)

08-02-2005 14:42:51




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Hello, I've had my tractor for a couple of years, and for the first time went to brush hog (5' sidewinder). The tractor didn't really have the power to do it. I've searched this forum and come to the conclusion that it should be able to pull a 5' hog. As it turns out the compression is low - 70,70,70, 75 1-4), with oil - they are all about 90 psi. I'm not a mechanic at all - I can manage tune ups and I've torn vw engines apart - only down to cylinders, never opened a case. My questions to you experts are 1. are there other tests I shoud run before I decide to rebuild? Is this something I can do myself - with the support of books, the rebuild video, lots of patience and time on this site with you guys? Cost of doing it myself(could be way more than professional?), vs paying a professional? What specialized tools would I need? Thanks in advance.

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irfan shah

08-03-2005 11:19:41




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 Re: TO-20 rebuild? in reply to Eric (MI), 08-02-2005 14:42:51  
Dir sir ineed scrap OR used tractor blow the 1990 modol plese send mi information UR coustomer



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gshadel

08-03-2005 05:36:41




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 Re: TO-20 rebuild? in reply to Eric (MI), 08-02-2005 14:42:51  
Eric,
Those compression numbers aren't terrible. I ran my TO for 3-4 years with compression numbers in that range. If your TO runs good, keep running it.

These old Continentals are about as easy an engine to rebuild as you will find.

You can borrow, or rent cheap, many of the specialty "one time use" tools you might need to rebuild your TO at most Auto Parts stores - like a ridge reamer, valve compressor, piston ring compressors, etc. The rest is all hand tools. An exception to that might be the head. When I rebuilt my TO, I took the head to a machine shop to press in new guides, polish-up the valve seats, etc. They also checked for warp, cracks, hot dipped, and painted it. Cost $70 and worth every penny.

A note on the bush hogging: even a strong re-built TO will bog down with a 5' B.Hog under certain conditions, ie. going up a fairly steep hill while cutting tall heavy grass, deck too low, etc. I was cutting my neighbors field a couple weeks back, hadn't been cut in 3-4 years, it was really thick and tall. My TO was bogging down with my "normal" bush hog setting. I had to raise the deck a few inches to get thru it. But, next time I cut it, my normal setting will do just fine providing I don't wait another couple years to cut it again.

I've also heard it helps if you adjust your B.hog deck so it is an inch or so lower in the front than in the back so the blade is only doing the heavy cutting on one side. I do that anyway to avoid getting hit by missiles (rocks,cans, sticks,etc) that are thrown out of the B. Hog.
If you do the rebuild, you can count on the guys here to give you good info.
George

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Eric (MI)

08-03-2005 06:26:05




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 Re: TO-20 rebuild? in reply to gshadel, 08-03-2005 05:36:41  
Thanks George. I read the shop manual and came to the conclusion very quickly that i would farm out the head job. It sounds like the easiest route for a novice would be to buy a replacement set of piston/cylinders (haven't yet investigated the cost - may change my mind). It also sounds like you could do this without removing the engine. But from reading elsewhere on this site if the crank, cam or other parts are worn that may multiply the problems. I appreciate your advice - I may try to get by for a year, but I've got a lot of steep hills on the property, so I may not be able to wait - might be a busy winter. Please keep the info coming - I'd love to do this myself - bond with the machine and learn a lot, but I don't want to get over my head.

Thanks.

When your in it up to your ears, keep your mouth shut. - unknown

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gshadel

08-03-2005 06:55:06




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 Re: TO-20 rebuild? in reply to Eric (MI), 08-03-2005 06:26:05  
Your right Eric, A new sleeve/piston set is indeed the easiest way to go, you don't have to worry about mic'ing the sleeve I.D., honing, ring gap, etc. Those sleeve pull out pretty easy, they are only held in by ~50 years of crud in the coolant side, and an O-ring on the bottom.
A sleeve set, and an overhaul gasket set. You will have all the basics you need to rebuild. That can be done with the engine on the tractor. You can check your crank bearing with plastiguage for proper clearance/wear while it is still in the block. If you decide to pull the crank, you will need to split the tractor, but that is pretty easy too. I pulled mine using a rolling floor jack to push the tractor away from the engine and a jack under the back of the engine. I did rent an engine hoist when I re-installed it... that made it real easy and quick.

I live on a hill too... in Ohio. I don't have chains, pretty much have to push snow going down hill only. You will probably have the same trouble, losing traction before losing H.Power. George

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Jerry/MT

08-02-2005 15:14:49




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 Re: TO-20 rebuild? in reply to Eric (MI), 08-02-2005 14:42:51  
Did you run the compression test on a warm engine with the throttle plate wide open? That's the correct way to do it. If that's what you did then you're in need of rings as a minimum. Get a copy of the Ferguson Shop Manual and you'll see that it's not too hard to do that job. However, you may also find that there will be more to be done after you open it up. After all, these machines are over 50 years old and they haven't generally had the best of care.

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Eric (MI)

08-02-2005 15:39:39




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 Re: TO-20 rebuild? in reply to Jerry/MT, 08-02-2005 15:14:49  
Yes, took out and inspected plugs, all a bit carbon fouled, didn't seem oily at all, put them back in and let it run 10 minutes and then did the compression test with throttle full open. The tractors exhaust pipe is very clean -seems to be only rust. The tractor does not seem to burn oil - did notice todaythat if you let off the throttle real fast there is a bit of white-blue smoke.



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Jerry/MT

08-05-2005 10:52:00




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 Re: TO-20 rebuild? in reply to Eric (MI), 08-02-2005 15:39:39  
I agree with Bill, you need to have the valve guides and intake valve seals replaced if you saw a good deal of smoke from a throttle chop. While you're at it have the valves ground and the head check for flatness. How's your oil pressure?



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Eric (MI)

08-05-2005 11:58:44




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 Re: TO-20 rebuild? in reply to Jerry/MT, 08-05-2005 10:52:00  
Oil pressure - good question - can't give you number, but I think its OK. My oil pressure gauge does not have any numbers?!? It has an bar-like arc(red/white) with 4 white lines - first two more separated than last two. The pressure indicated is to the right of the second white line, I'd guess about10 degrees to the right of straight up. I hope that's good pressure. I don't know why there are no numbers on my gauge, my guess is they just faded away after 53 years. Thanks for the explanation of the white smoke (just a little) after throttle drop.

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Bill Brox

08-04-2005 11:42:52




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 Re: TO-20 rebuild? in reply to Eric (MI), 08-02-2005 15:39:39  
Hi, the let of trottle real fast gives ypu a bit of white - blue smoke tells me that you have worn inlet valve guides.
This is because when the engine has a high speed, and you suddenly close the trottle plate, you get a very high vacuum all the way from the trottle plate and into the cylinder. All this is supposed to be airtight, except for the valveguides. And the more worn they are, the more oil this extreme vacuum manage to drag into the cylinder. And therefor you get smoke then.

So, maybe you just need a good valvejob, and replace the valveguides, and in worst case the valves too. But, it is a minor job compared to a total rebuild.


Bill in Norway.

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