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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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PTO decision, advice needed

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Rob in VA

05-01-2005 05:59:31




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Hi Everyone;

While working my '53 TO-30 I had a minor failure. The PTO shaft adapter sheered off while mowing with my Woods 4 foot finish mower. The PTO itself appears to otherwise have suffered no damage. The tractor came with this adpater so I don't know how old it was. Now I am faced with the decision of getting an overunning clutch to go from the old shafter diameter of 1 1/8 inches to the modern diamter of 1 3/8 inches and act as the adapter by itself, OR I can get a standard adapter to make that transition and then use the overunning clutch I have that goes from modern to modern 1 3/8 inches diameter.

Another variable also leads to another option. I have a PTO shaft seal that leaks. I tried to fix this once but couldn't get the bearing clip to release the bearings to replace the rubber seal. So I could get the whole new PTO shaft conversion assembly and solve 2 problems at one time. Yes it's a little more expensive, but...

Thanks in advance for any thoughts or advice you can offer.

Rob

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Rob in VA

05-03-2005 04:29:16




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 Re: PTO decision, advice needed in reply to Rob in VA, 05-01-2005 05:59:31  
Hi Eveyone;

Thanks for the fantastic input. I will make a final decision later this week, but here is clarification in the meantime.

Last week (before the adapter sheared off) I bought an over-running coupler that mated the 1 3/8 to 1 3/8. Before using that new coupler the adapter sheard off. So I could simply return that coupler for an over-running coupler that goes from 1 1/8 to 1 3/8 size. I still have the receipt and the bag from Tractor Supply.

Also, time to tinker is a factor. I have too little time to work on projects.

Thanks;
Rob

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phil(va)

05-03-2005 14:31:04




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 Re: PTO decision, advice needed in reply to Rob in VA, 05-03-2005 04:29:16  
OK, here's your best deal for man strapped for time. Return the ORC and get the one that is 1 1/8 to 1 3/8. Pull the PTO, it's only four bolts and slides right out. Take it to local machine shop with seal ($10 lots of places) and have them install. Bolt it back in (10 min. max). To do this without draining fluid in case that is an issue and you have already put in new fluid, just drive front of tractor in steep ditch first. Simple, easy, cheap.

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Jeff-oh

05-03-2005 09:21:35




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 Re: PTO decision, advice needed in reply to Rob in VA, 05-03-2005 04:29:16  
Rob, traiding out the OCR would be my option. The oil seal can be delt with later if it is not a major leak now. Last summer I switched out the pto oil seal on my MF-65 it was VERY simple. I drove out the old seal with a wodden dowel and then used a 2" PVC coupler and vise to seat the new seal... I need to look at my TE-20 next.

BTW I have no clue if the PTO seals on a TO and the MF-65 are the same or not.

Keep that pasture clean you have a beautiful place.

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phil(va)

05-03-2005 14:26:39




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 Re: PTO decision, advice needed in reply to Jeff-oh, 05-03-2005 09:21:35  
The seals are different on those tractors.



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Jerry/MT

05-02-2005 12:47:57




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 Re: PTO decision, advice needed in reply to Rob in VA, 05-01-2005 05:59:31  
I have the original 1-1/8" shaft but on the shelf is a new 1-3/8" unit that will go in when I lay up the tractor this winter.(Gotta' replace the rockshaft bushing, the front axle bushing add a Fergy positioner, adjust the clutch fingers,etc) Mine is still a working machine so the convenience of a standard shaft is important to me. I'll keep the old one for when I sell the -30 in case the buyer wants to make it "original". You'll need an ORC regardless of what you decide if you want to use a mower.

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gshadel

05-02-2005 09:25:31




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 Re: PTO decision, advice needed in reply to Rob in VA, 05-01-2005 05:59:31  
Not all 1 1/8" to 1 3/8" converters are created equal. I ripped-up 2 or 3 of the cheap stamped converter sleeves before getting a solid one that lasted for years.

If hogging is your only PTO need, I'd recommend getting the O.R.C that goes 1 1/8" to 1 3/8", or the adapters that are solid.

But, I agree with the other guys on the 1 3/8" PTO. I use several PTO implements, I installed a 1 3/8" PTO shaft a few years back... it was like getting a new tractor!

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phil(va)

05-02-2005 07:20:01




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 Re: PTO decision, advice needed in reply to Rob in VA, 05-01-2005 05:59:31  
Either way you go, you need a new ORC. Either one that accepts 1 1/8 shaft or one that accepts 1 3/8 shaft. They are equally available and same price. In any event ditch the convertible sleeve. Seal for current PTO is $10. Replacement not tough, just remove clip with screwdriver and drive shaft out of housing, replace seal, put shaft back in housing, and replace clip. (If you don't want to tackle it, your local machine shop will do it for you probably for 1/2 hour labor.) Shafts are same size inside, of course, only different on the end, so size not big strength issue. Looking at the alternative, the complete shafts you buy for $115 include everything and you just bolt them in and you get a screw on cover also. However it does cost an additional $100 or so over just replacing the seal yourself (or $50 more if you get machine shop to replace the seal). The ORC cost is not a factor as you need one of those either way. Your call.

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Jeff-oh

05-02-2005 06:42:06




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 Re: PTO decision, advice needed in reply to Rob in VA, 05-01-2005 05:59:31  
If I understand you question right...

Option 1:
1-1/8 to 1-3/8 ORC - $50.00
New seal for shaft - $11.00 or $61.00

Option two:
1-3/8 shaft- $100.00
use current ORC.

I would be tempted go to the new shaft.



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nonac99

05-01-2005 20:08:18




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 Re: PTO decision, advice needed in reply to Rob in VA, 05-01-2005 05:59:31  
My vote is go for the new assembly with 1 3/8 shaft. Just installed one this week end. I bought it from YT. It came with a PTO cover but no gasket. When I pulled the old one out it had no gasket but had permatex. I used black permatex and it work well. It was really easy to change but when they say park the front end in a ditch to keep the oil from coming out, they should have said really deep ditch. ;-)

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George in NW Mich

05-01-2005 12:24:44




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 I changed mine for a 1 3/8 in reply to Rob in VA, 05-01-2005 05:59:31  
I had a very leaky PTO seal also, so I changed the whole thing for a 1 3/8. I had no implements that used the 1 1/8 anyway, so it seemed to make sense. As you noted however, it does not provide the benefit of the overrunning clutch. But it hooks up to everything and does not leak, so I am happy.

I don't know if they make a 1 3/8 to 1 3/8 overrunning clutch, but that might be a good idea to add.

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kevin lindsey

05-09-2005 16:35:23




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 Re: I changed mine for a 1 3/8 in reply to George in NW Mich, 05-01-2005 12:24:44  
THEY DO MAKE A 1 3/8 TO 1 3/8 ORC. DAVIS TRACTOR. LOOK IT UP ON INTERNET. $41.00



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Gerald J.

05-01-2005 15:47:31




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 Re: I changed mine for a 1 3/8 in reply to George in NW Mich, 05-01-2005 12:24:44  
They do make a 1-3/8 to 1-3/8" overrunning clutch.

Seems like the original post was that he had that size of clutch, that it was a separate 1-1/8 to 1-3/8" adapter that sheared.

I'd prefer that there was no adapter, either change the shaft or the overrunning clutch to minimize the loose pieces.

For sure going to the 1-3/8" shaft makes parts stronger.

Gerald J.



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Jim W

05-01-2005 08:47:40




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 Re: PTO decision, advice needed in reply to Rob in VA, 05-01-2005 05:59:31  
My opinion fwiw is to fix the seal and get a 1 1/8 -> 1 3/8 ORC.
I have done the seal on a TEA which I think is the same and did not have to take the bearing off the shaft - just take the shaft complete with bearing out of the housing. Not sure if that's where you had difficulty.
If the problem was getting the circlip out, take a careful look at the ends in the picture on the webpage at the link here. A small screwdriver did it for me.
Jim

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Tom H.

05-01-2005 08:46:42




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 Re: PTO decision, advice needed in reply to Rob in VA, 05-01-2005 05:59:31  
Well, you do have a delema. I have a 54 to 30 that the rear PTO seal leaked and was able to replace the seal and one of the bearings easily by giving it to a friend who works in a machine shop. I had put on an overrun clutch when I bought my mower because I knew from past experience that I did not want my mower driving me while trying to brake. If you already have the new seal I would get that replaced and get the overdrive clutch that fits the 1 1/8 spline you have and keep on going tith the original pto drive.

Should you want to go the other way, I believe the whole pto assembly only runs around $100.00 plus the cost of the overrun clutch. You could be up and running in an hour or so doing this. Ebay may be a way to get rid ov the old pto shaft.

Good luck.

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danct

05-01-2005 08:44:22




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 Re: PTO decision, advice needed in reply to Rob in VA, 05-01-2005 05:59:31  
Rob
having had your problem a few years ago i can relate,i switched to the 1 3/8 and got one complete with bearing and seals ,while i was doing this i drained all the old fluid out and got all the years of gunk out of there,,i was advised by one of the old timers on here to keep the old 1 1/8 shaft as the stuff that they were made of isnt being made anymore ,anyway last year i needed a pto shaft for a TE i got and this had to be 1 1/8 to turn a pump for a backhoe, so i put new seal and bearing on this and now it too is perfect,strange but it was easy to do the seal the second time i tried it
sorry about the long answer,but i been there
good luck ,and keep the old shaft ,wrap it up but coat wit grease first to keep rust away
Danny

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