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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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TEA20 trailer tipping

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Fergie2035

04-15-2005 11:01:22




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Friend of mine has fitted a tipping pipe for a trailer to his T20 but is finding that to get it to tip he has to hold the tractor link arms down. Just leaning on then is enough. Do the arms have to be held down to use external hydraulic services?

Seems like the arms may be coming to the top of their travel and shutting the oil intake to the pump off? This would seem a logical arrangement if only the arms were being used but is obviously not what you want to tip a trailer. Its runnning in my mind that maybe the arms do need to be held down to get oil to keep pumping but perhaps someone actually knows about this.

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John(UK)

04-15-2005 11:34:07




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 Re: TEA20 trailer tipping in reply to Fergie2035, 04-15-2005 11:01:22  
That is how it works, when the link arms reach the top they move the Control Valve to neutral. You do have to prevent the lift arms coming up somehow, like a Tee bar from a pick-up hitch or very strong drawbar stays NOT fastened to the top link connection



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Alex C

04-15-2005 13:12:41




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 Re: TEA20 trailer tipping in reply to John(UK), 04-15-2005 11:34:07  
John...Do you have a picture of a "T-bar pickup hitch"?



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John(UK)

04-15-2005 14:22:20




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 Re: TEA20 trailer tipping in reply to Alex C, 04-15-2005 13:12:41  
Yes I have, but you will have to email me at fergusontractors at tiscali dot co dot uk so I will have an address to send it to, please remind me what you need when you send the mail please as I may forget....lol



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Fergie2035

04-15-2005 18:46:18




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 Re: TEA20 trailer tipping in reply to John(UK), 04-15-2005 14:22:20  
Thanks John. I had that at the back of my mind and had a look in John Farnworth's book with all the implements shown. I see the loaders say that the T bar has to be used. A chain will do the same job for the occasional use my mate will have for it. I have a pick up hitch for mine but he'll need to find one of his own if he want it!



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John(UK)

04-16-2005 07:08:15




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 Re: TEA20 trailer tipping in reply to Fergie2035, 04-15-2005 18:46:18  
That book shows the Ferguson implement range and how THEY did it, but some of the other loader manufacturers had different methods of keeping the linkage from going to the top, some good ideas,some not so good. The most useful one to my mind was the simplest and was made for the MIL loader, they used two non-adjustable drawbar stays of extra thick steel and used these with the linkage drawbar and connected them to the hinged pin (under the top link connection) with spacers either side so they wouldn't move around. Of course these can be used with any loader and having the drawbar is useful too. If you do make these please DO NOT ATTACH THEM TO THE TOP LINK CONNECTION

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Dean Logan OH

04-16-2005 08:20:42




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 Re: TEA20 trailer tipping in reply to John(UK), 04-16-2005 07:08:15  
John UK,
Tell me why not to connect to top link. I have mine to it to keep the arms from coming up when I load to much on back of trailer.This just seemed like the simplest way. Am I going to damage something?
Dean
deldean@lycos.com



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John(UK)

04-16-2005 08:55:26




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 Re: TEA20 trailer tipping in reply to Dean Logan OH, 04-16-2005 08:20:42  
Hi Dean,
The top link connection is for the top link only...the only exception to that was the linkage drawbar stays when the hydraulics are not in use. If you have the stays to hold the drawbar down attached to there, it can damage the Control Linkage inside when the pressure come on, as it lifts it will try to compress the spring and it just wasn't made for that it was made to sense the depth through the top link from the implement only, which is quite light unless it strikes something, again that is what it was made for. It isn't that much difference to attach it to the long hinged pin below where it can do no harm to anything. Not everything attaches to the top link connection on any tractor.

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gerard

04-16-2005 15:52:17




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 Re: TEA20 trailer tipping in reply to John(UK), 04-16-2005 08:55:26  
John,
this forum is indebted to you for your informed advice. Sorry to hear about those health problems that hit you.
Regarding top link - there can't be many of us who haven't used these tractors (and others) in ways that were never envisaged when they were designed.
As you say, the top link was designed to take compression forces, but my query is - what damage are we risking by using it in tension, and what's a safe limit?
I can think of all sorts of gear that puts it in tension - eg buckrake & some forklifts.
I put enormous loads on the top link of my 135 when I use a 3 point mounted crane (I run a safety chain to the hinged pin as insurance).
Keep up the good work,

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John UK

04-16-2005 16:34:47




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 Re: TEA20 trailer tipping in reply to gerard, 04-16-2005 15:52:17  
Hi Gerard, not chatted with you for ages...how long is it...(hours)
You shouldn't use a crane on a top link connection point ever.I would say it is really too much. you should attach it to the long hinged pin The Ferguson crane was attached there. I would think the limit is quite high as they would calculate some shock forces into it, but why connect it there when you have the long hinged pin where it will do no harm at all. All these tractors are getting a bit long in the tooth now and anything we can do to avoid damage to them will be good. It is hard to get hold of the Control Valve linkage now so just avoid it. In the book that came with the tractor it used to say don't try to pull anything from the top link connection not just because of the safety problem where the tractor may lift the front and tip over but because it will damage the draft control. I have seen the Control Spring ripped off the back of tractor, now what they did to do that I don't know but it wasn't fair use. Using that crane on a 35 type isn't wise because the top link connection is not that well supported and they can and have "necked" off the top cover. It should be avoided with Buck-rakes too as usually when they are is use they are not creeping around and the load bounces a lot so it will pull on that connection.
Forklifts shouldn't be attached either, just too much load, most of the the implements that attach there are not made by Ferguson and they don't take into account the stresses and what problems it could cause to the tractor, lots of Ferguson implements used the long pin as the connection point just to avoid using the top link connection. There is nothing in print as far as I can find about just what the safe loading is at that point, but I was always told to avoid using that connection if possible. The top link connection is really the most "delicate" part of the draft Control system externally and anything that could possibly cause damage should be avoided.

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