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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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TO-20 AXLE HELP ...PLEASE!

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Mike in NC

08-18-2004 12:44:49




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I have a TO-20 and we (me and AtterBob) think it is a 1951. No ID plate but it has the internal oil filter. While bush hogging in my very hilly pasture, the right axle of my TO-20 snapped off just behind the brake drum. Once I cleaned myself and the dust settled, the axle was broken in two places; I expect when the tractor fell on the wheel, it snapped the axle again inside the housing. I was able to remove everything. My local MF dealer had all replacement parts except for the axle. I located a replacement TO-20 axle in Virginia ($125.00)and had it shipped to me (they are now closed for a week). Everyone recommended replacing the seal, collar, and bearing. Not being equipped to do this, I paid the MF dealer $106.00 for new parts to be pressed on the axle. NOW FOR THE PROBLEM. When I installed the built up axle, it spun in the housing. I compared the old to the new and the problem is that the replacement axle is smaller than the original axle. The complete spline diameter of the original is roughly 1 7/8" and the replacement is only about 1 5/8", The old shaft is about 1 5/8 diameter and the replacement is about 1 9/16". The dealer says going by the book, I have the correct axle for a TO-20. They cannot tell me the actual dimensions of a TO-20 and a TO-30 axle. The manual I have, states that the TO-20 has ONLY an outer seal and mine had ONLY an outer seal which makes it sound even more like a TO-20. However, the axle is TOO SMALL to mate up to the gears in my differential. I think one of two things has happened. Either my TO-20 was fitted with a TO-30 rear end at the factory or someone had some lift/rear end trouble and replaced the back half with a TO-30. Does this sound possible?? Can anyone tell me, based on the dimensions, what kind of axle I might have?? I now have a completely built up $240.00 TO-20 axle that I cannot use. Any information will be greatly appreciated.

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Duner Wi

08-19-2004 19:35:55




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 Re: TO-20 AXLE HELP ...PLEASE! in reply to Mike in NC, 08-18-2004 12:44:49  
Does your new axle have less surface area that touches the axle on the other side? If it is more rounded on the end it is call a "button end"
versus the "butt end" axle with approximate 1 1/4 sq. inches syrface area that touches the other axle. I will guess that you have some TO 30 rear axle parts in your TO 20.



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John (UK)

08-19-2004 11:57:40




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 Re: TO-20 AXLE HELP ...PLEASE! in reply to Mike in NC, 08-18-2004 12:44:49  
As an afterthought to my earlier mail, you could post a part number from the centre axle housing (should start with HF**** on a TO I think)and someone with a parts list could check if the housing is the new or old type, that would solve the problem of which type it is, old or new.



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Al in BC

08-18-2004 14:09:05




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 Re: TO-20 AXLE HELP ...PLEASE! in reply to Mike in NC, 08-18-2004 12:44:49  
Good day Mike.
I sell a parts manual on disc and I looked up the problem you have and it tells me that your TO 20 should have part number 181 259 M91. It should be stamped on the axle shafts somewhere. Tell me the number you have and I can probably tell you if it in fact a Ferguson. You can get me at alsherhys at shaw dot ca

Maybe that's a help.

Al in BC



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Mike in NC

08-18-2004 15:00:23




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 Re: TO-20 AXLE HELP ...PLEASE! in reply to Al in BC, 08-18-2004 14:09:05  
To Al in BC---Neither axle has any numbers such as you describe stamped on them. However, on the outside end of both axles where it mates to the brake drum is the following stamping: Original axle has Z HF TO 4234B and the "too small" replacement axle has Z HF TO 4234A. Other than the size, that is the only difference I can see. Both have only the outer seal, which my manual describes as a TO-20. It shows the TO-30 with an inner and an outer seal; but, the replacement axle is just too small.

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James, UK

08-19-2004 09:22:07




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 Re: TO-20 AXLE HELP ...PLEASE! in reply to Mike in NC, 08-18-2004 15:00:23  
Mike in NC,

"Original axle has Z HF TO 4234B and the "too small" replacement axle has Z HF TO 4234A"

Well, if I put on my "injunears" hat, I would hazard a guess that the "A" suffix drawing preceded the "B" suffix drawing.

IF that is correct, then it is possible that the gold plated axle you have now is for the earlier back end - which had a smaller, thinner halfshaft.

John (UK) would be able to confirm the actual serial number at which the axles became beefed up, but it was after introduction of the TEF when the diesels developed a habit of shearing half shafts - my guess it was around the 500,000 mark here in the UK. As a result of this all half shafts were beefed up - you may have a later half shaft/back end as someone suspects.

The inner/outer oil seal clue may be a red herring - my TED is a very late 6V 20-85, and only has the outer oil seal - as far as I know it was much later into the 12V series when the inner seal was added, plus a zerk for greasing the inner hub area.

HTH

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John (UK)

08-19-2004 11:50:53




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 Re: TO-20 AXLE HELP ...PLEASE! in reply to James, UK, 08-19-2004 09:22:07  
Thanks for dropping me in it James...lol
I can"t tell you when the axle was changed on a TO I just don"t have the data on them. Our TE tractors had the axle changed at # 325,001 1953, so the TO should have been changed somewhere around that time I would have thought. The only easy way to recognise the later type is that the splined end of the axle shaft has a slightly larger diameter and instead of 16 splines of the old shaft they now had 19 splines, everything else was the same, the extra seal was added at this time.

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Mike in NC

08-20-2004 06:30:08




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 Re: TO-20 AXLE HELP ...PLEASE! in reply to John (UK), 08-19-2004 11:50:53  
You guys are too good. Checked my original axle and sure enough, it has 19 splines. This time, I'll take it with me to the salvage yard. I will always wonder why this particular TO-20 has a different differential. Maybe this lends additional credence to AtterBob's theory that it is a late production model 1951...just before the change over.



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John (UK)

08-21-2004 05:18:48




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 Re: TO-20 AXLE HELP ...PLEASE! in reply to Mike in NC, 08-20-2004 06:30:08  
Could well be that is the reason for the different axle on yours, no reason for them not to fit it anyway , it is a much stronger axle and better all round. So much so, that the Almighty Ford Company used it on a version of their tractor they produced over here because they were having problems and they did a petrol (gas) version of the same tractor and guess whose engine they used for that too. After all that litigation they went through with Harry Ferguson it does make you wonder.

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James, UK

08-19-2004 12:09:28




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 Re: TO-20 AXLE HELP ...PLEASE! in reply to John (UK), 08-19-2004 11:50:53  
Always a pleasure John, Heh, Heh, Heh, But I knew you"d read it and would know the answer.



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John (UK)

08-19-2004 12:46:18




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 Re: TO-20 AXLE HELP ...PLEASE! in reply to James, UK, 08-19-2004 12:09:28  
Remind me to do the same for you someday "friend"
I only wish I did know the all answers to that one, seems very strange that there is very little information available about the TO and the Continental from the factory, unlike Banner Lane perhaps its a ploy by the US goverment to keep em in the dark or maybe even keep the Russians in the Dark around that time.



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Al in BC

08-18-2004 16:07:24




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 Re: TO-20 AXLE HELP ...PLEASE! in reply to Mike in NC, 08-18-2004 15:00:23  
Mike. I have done a little more digging and I find that some how a TO 35 axle pops up on the TO 20 as only one required. I wonder if the different axle is in the drive side. Can't tell what year they would have done this, but I can certainly send you a copy of the parts sheet so you have a look if you send me an email on the back burner.. Maybe someone else might have a different idea. I have a TEA 20-85 and I would have to pull a wheel to se what numbers are on the flange, but don't think that would help. It being an English tractor.. Good luck.

Al in BC

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Mike in NC

08-18-2004 17:46:17




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 Re: TO-20 AXLE HELP ...PLEASE! in reply to Al in BC, 08-18-2004 16:07:24  
Al----I tried to send you an e-mail with the address you gave but it was returned as undeliverable...something wrong with the address perhaps. My e-mail is mjabigger@webkorner.com. Please send me an e-mail at that address and I can just hit the respond key. The parts sheet sound like a good thing to have as I try to straighten this out.



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