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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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Noisy valves

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Sam Macon

08-18-2004 11:10:40




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The valves in my 1948 Harry Ferguson Z-120
are very loud. They are ajusted to .015 cold but I
am getting very little oil to the rocker arm.
Could something be stopped up? The rest of the engine is quiet (crankshaft ect.). What should I do? Help please.




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gshadel

08-19-2004 08:51:51




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 Re: Noisy valves in reply to Sam Macon, 08-18-2004 11:10:40  
Sam, Is your Z-120 making more noise than it used too?
These old mechanical overhead cam engines make more valve noise than "modern" hydraulically driven valves. Thought my TO-20 had noisy valves when I bought it. An old timer told me the same thing. (does that mean I'm an old timer now?)

I rebuilt my engine top to bottom, tore my valve train totally down, inspected, cleaned, etc., wouldn't you know...still makes the same noise. I've run the engine with the valve cover off, didn't make a big mess. Not a lot of oil there, just enough to keep everything wet.

If you are really worried about it, or it is worse than it used to be, it is an easy job to pull the whole rocker assembly, take it apart, clean/inspect, put it back on, and re-check your tappet clearance. I agree with 'ol Mr. Chapp about making sure your valve stems & valve stem caps(if you have them) are good and square, but I would be too scared to tighten down those valve clearances for fear of losing compression or burning a valve. If the stems and rockers look good, I'd say set the factory cold gap and enjoy the sound of a vintage Ferguson clacking down the road.

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Sam Macon

08-19-2004 10:01:25




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 Re: Noisy valves in reply to gshadel, 08-19-2004 08:51:51  
Thanks gshadel



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Jerry/MT

08-19-2004 10:00:39




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 Re: Noisy valves in reply to gshadel, 08-19-2004 08:51:51  
I don't think the oiling system on the Z129 engine is any different than the Z120, but when I installed my remanufactured Z129, there was a lot of oil to the rocker arms and valves.I adjusted my valve hot and running and I dialed the idle down as far as I could and there was still a bit of oil splash from the rockers and valve stems.I still have the #1 valves ticking a bit so I obviously didn't get it adjusted quite right. I'm surprised that you folks don't see a lot of oil to the valve train.

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txblu

08-19-2004 06:30:04




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 Re: Noisy valves in reply to Sam Macon, 08-18-2004 11:10:40  
I had a noisy valve train on a TO-20 Continental gas. Turned out to be a rocker arm to mounting post problem. Over the years, the rocker arm rubbing against the mounting post caused the rocker arm to develop a RIDGE. This ridge would cause the arm to HOP as it went by a certain point on the mounting post and when it hopped it went TICK. Thought it was valves but after investigating it turned out to be that. Removed the arm and ground it off smooth. Problem solved.

Did not see much oil in rocker train. I have heard that sometimes the plug on the end of the rocker support tube fractures and the oil runs out the end rather that lubing the rockers, but mine didn"t have that problem.

Mark

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Sam Macon

08-19-2004 08:54:56




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 Re: Noisy valves in reply to txblu, 08-19-2004 06:30:04  
Thanks Mark:
The rocker arm looks good. I have oil pressure butI am not getting much oil up top. Sam



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txblu

08-19-2004 10:22:05




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 Re: Noisy valves in reply to Sam Macon, 08-19-2004 08:54:56  
Ok. With that said, I have looked at a lot of engines running and will say that the Chev small block V8 put the most on the rockers of any engine that I have seen. Now that may be due to design, or several other things including oil viscosity and engine wear.

Since the rocker assy doesn"t do any work to speak of, I don"t think I"d worry too much about it. As long as there is an oil film on the rocker support.

If you have a manual they show how the oil is distributed. As I recall, the rocker gets oiled from the cam bearings. The crank and cam inputs are in parallel. So if you are that concerned, you might pull your cam and bearings and have them replaced, or mic"d or whatever. Course a worn out pump, or slop in the main/rod bearings, or low viscosity oil causing low oil pressure could cause a problem also.

I think it is a gut (your gut) feel thing. You need to pursue till you feel right about it. No telling how long the engine has been running that way, and if there is no galling or overheat discoloration, or other sign of oil diprivation then maybe you will feel more comfortable with what you see.

Good Luck,

Mark

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Mr Chapp

08-18-2004 16:31:29




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 Re: Noisy valves in reply to Sam Macon, 08-18-2004 11:10:40  
Hi Sam... are you sure it's valve noise??? If it is, try adjusting them >003 tighter, as they may not have rotated as they should and the stems could have been "mushroomed" Does the feeler gage read the same on all valves after running? Just a thought, hope it helps. Good luck, have fun!! Hope I haven't confused you.



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Sam Macon

08-19-2004 07:22:54




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 Re: Noisy valves in reply to Mr Chapp, 08-18-2004 16:31:29  
Mr. Chapp:
Thanks.The valves all adjust the same. They don't
appear to be mushroomed.I used the old mop handle trick(one end to the engine the other to my ear) all of the noise is coming from inside the valve cover. I will try adjusting them to .012 this week end. I'll let you know what happens. Sam



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John (UK)

08-19-2004 12:14:03




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 Re: Noisy valves in reply to Sam Macon, 08-19-2004 07:22:54  
I am going from memory now and its a long time ago so I am possibly completely wrong in this but, the oil comes up through the rear rockershaft pedestal, isn"t there a small screw with a hole like a "jet" to limit the amount of oil coming up there, is it restricted in any way. Have you tried compressed air down the oil gallery in the head to see if it will move anything. Only other way is to remove the camshaft and clean everything up. I have it in a manual here that it requires a minimum of 15psi to get correct amount of oil to rockershaft...there you go pick out of that what you can.

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Sam Macon

08-19-2004 18:58:00




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 Re: Noisy valves in reply to John (UK), 08-19-2004 12:14:03  
Thanks John. I"ll check this out this week end.



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