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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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oil pressure

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mark sabine

07-04-2004 23:58:24




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I have a 1950 TO20. When I start it cold the oil pressure gage reads 20psi but quickly drops to 5 or less
as it warms up. Am i ruining my engine? I am using 10W 30 oil.
Please advise.




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Jerry/MT

07-06-2004 15:06:15




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 Re: oil pressure in reply to mark sabine, 07-04-2004 23:58:24  
The shop manual says that the oil pressure "...should be as follows: 20-30 psi at 2200 rpm and 15 psi minimum at idle speed." I don't think you're necessarily "damaging" your enginwe but I believe your bearings are very worn.



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Paul in Ms

07-05-2004 07:19:41




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 Re: oil pressure in reply to mark sabine, 07-04-2004 23:58:24  
The maximum oil pressure for the z-120 engine is 30 lbs. The engines were designed for low oil pressure. It has been said many times here at this site 5 lbs. or less will last for years. The manual says to use 30 wt. oil. That is what has been used in my to-20 for 54 years.



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James, UK

07-05-2004 00:56:57




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 Re: oil pressure in reply to mark sabine, 07-04-2004 23:58:24  
Relax - most of them over here run happily at 5 to 10 when hot. I use 15W40, get 90+ psi when cold, and 10 or so at full chat when part warm. Fully warmed up around 5 psi.

As long as your oil flow is good, you should not have any problems - so make sure your filter is clean . . . . . .

HTH



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txblu

07-05-2004 06:41:06




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 Re: Re: oil pressure in reply to James, UK, 07-05-2004 00:56:57  
You hit the sweet spot with oil viscosity. The heavier oil is definitely a must.

If you're running that kind of dynamic range with that heavy an oil, and clean at that, an overhaul isn't far away. Course, you can buy a lot of oil for what an overhaul costs. I have a MF35 that I have to run HD 40 wt in it to get an oil pressure that I'm comfortable with. Course this winter I will have to drop down. Will probably go back to 15w-40 then back to 40 next summer. I just don't to tear into a Perkins 3/152 for low oil press. You can't drop the pan and do the mains on that engine. There is no pan. The bottom of the engine is cast iron and is used as the frame of the tractor, rather than the engine block that most mfgr's use. Had it been simpler to get the pan off, I'd just do the lowers and be done with it.
Mark

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James, UK

07-05-2004 12:56:31




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 Re: Re: Re: oil pressure in reply to txblu, 07-05-2004 06:41:06  
The biggest problem I get is with oil dilution from the TVO fractions getting past the rings if I switch to TVO too soon - well, it is cheaper than diesel!! Regular oil changes cure that (as does changing over to TVO at the right time).

I ran the old girl hard this evening, and my figures above were a bit out - I get an amazing 20psi at full chat when hot (and I do mean HOT as my fan belt is slipping a bit . . .) so I'm not going to worry too much about that rebuild just yet.

Most of the Standard engines lose the bulk of their pressure on the camshaft bearings - my mains and big ends are all AOK - and as long as the top end and valve train is getting a good sluicing of oil there should not be much to worry about.

Like you say, it's all in the viscosity, but I would add that flow is also needed to carry the heat away and prevent the oil breaking down.

Happy days!

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txblu

07-06-2004 06:21:49




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: oil pressure in reply to James, UK, 07-05-2004 12:56:31  
James,

Interesting point you make about cam bearings. I never give them any thought. Do you have significant experience that on a Diesel engine, the cam bearings would preceed the lowers in wear?

Would be good to know and maybe I need to be more thorough the next time I tear into one. (Don't have a cam bearing puller nor installer.)

Mark



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James, UK

07-06-2004 06:58:52




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: oil pressure in reply to txblu, 07-06-2004 06:21:49  
Honest answer for the one you have is "I don't know" - but if you look at the oil flow path for the Standard petrol engine, the mains and big ends get the bulk of the pressure, then the camshaft/timing chain, and finally what is left goes up to the valve train.

If the oil isn't well maintained, the (essentially poor) lubrication to the camshaft journals (which are plain bearings, not ball or roller so don't need pullers) gets worse as the hole is semi blocked by gunge - so you get a leak path because of the wear due lack of lube. This means a drop in pressure and a lack of top end lubrication - so rattly valve train and worn guides etc.

Rebuilding/resizing/renewing the camshaft bearing surfaces is a major pain (and also $$$$), so doesn't often get done.

Rebuilding your oil pump can also be a bonus - if you look back in the archives to sometime in 2003 I posted a load of stuff on rebuilding oil pumps (the company I used to work for made the things, even for the Ferguson engine) and the things to watch out for on clearances, and what makes an inefficient pump.

More I cannot offer - HTH.

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John (UK)

07-06-2004 15:48:47




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: oil pressure in reply to James, UK, 07-06-2004 06:58:52  
Oil pressure was always low on the Continental engine, but it seems to run quite happily like that. The camshaft could cause problems on those engines, that is why you always see camshafts offered in the parts lists for TE20, very rarely on the Standard engine though, could get a bit rattly at times but biggest problem was the oilways to the cam bearings on that engine (Standard)getting blocked, clean them out and it was ok.

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txblu

07-07-2004 06:05:22




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: oil pressure in reply to John (UK), 07-06-2004 15:48:47  
Thanks for the responses.

Mark



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