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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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z-129 head gasket seal

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timk

03-19-2004 17:40:26




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After recent overhaul on my Z-129 motor I cannot
seem to achieve a proper seal on head gasket.
Tractor ran great before - just smoked and low power.

Motor was completely overhauled (sleeves, pistons,
head machined, etc...)Runs great now except....
Noticed milky oil and performed pressure test (15 psi), compression test. Could observe head gasket leaking around perimeter of head. With pan off I noticed water drop from top of motor. After removing rocker assembly I could see water drops passing into pushrod hole at head gasket area. Took apart and installed new head gasket and still have the same problem - appears I am not getting good seal on head gasket.
At this time I am still pretty confident the head gasket is still the culprit area. Have seen no drips around sleeves.

What is the best way to check sleeve seals ? Fill the block with gasoline was one suggestion.
"gas goes where water won't"

Assuming the head and block are flat and sleeves are setting properly where could my problem be.
I have been assembling the head gasket dry and going through the torque procedure during assembly and break in.

My next plan of attack is as follows:
1. Use copper coat on gasket
2. Run tap/die on all threads of studs/nuts
3. Use Bar's leak during start up
4. Should I leave radiator cap loose to keep pressure low during break in ??

Any help would be greatly appreciated, it is almost time to put her to work again.

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Ray

03-22-2004 11:00:25




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 Re: z-129 head gasket seal in reply to timk, 03-19-2004 17:40:26  
Did you resolve this? I am having the same problem with my U302. Please let me know what you found out.

thanks, Ray



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timk

03-22-2004 17:43:34




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 Re: Re: z-129 head gasket seal in reply to Ray, 03-22-2004 11:00:25  
Have everything cleaned and ready to go back
together. Can not find any leaks, cracks, etc...

I filled the block with white gas to check for leaks with the sleeve seals and found nothing.
I hate to pull sleeves without knowing that they are the culprit. All my data so far points
at the head gasket.

I am still stumped myself.

Thanks,

Tim



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gshadel

03-21-2004 18:56:07




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 Re: z-129 head gasket seal in reply to timk, 03-19-2004 17:40:26  
I am currently rebuilding the engine on my TO-20. My head gasket was leaking, one of the reasons I decided to rebuild. There seems to be different opinions on whether the head gasket should be dry, or wet (with a sealer). I read a dozen posts on the matter. My service manual says to use "cup grease" on the head gasket. I asked an experienced "old timer" about that, he told me to use a sealer because it lets the head gasket "settle" , or move around a little while you are torquing down the bolts. I decided I will be using a sealer myself. You didn't mention it, but re-torquing all the bolts after running the engine the first time sounds like a good idea. I'm of the opinion that when you are rebuilding a 40 year old engine, sometimes things just don't fit like they used too, even with new parts. Gasket sealer, radiator sealer, sounds like cheap insurance, I'll be using both too. Good luck

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Ray,IN

03-19-2004 18:35:38




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 Re: z-129 head gasket seal in reply to timk, 03-19-2004 17:40:26  
First, are you absolutely sure there are no cracks in either the head or block? Normally setting the head gasket as you stated results in a good seal. Using head gasket sealer may help. Running a tap into each head bolt hole is a good idea to remove the crud and insure proper torque on the bolts. Applying a light coat of anti-seize to the bolt threads may be a good thing. I wouldn't use any coolant system sealer to try and cover up the problem though. You said "assuming the head and block are flat", did you test them for flatness? This may be accomplished with a straightedge and feeler gauge in the tractor, but for maximum accuracy this test should be done on a bench using a dial indicator. Since you saw coolant leaking while the engine was sitting with the rocker arms off I am guessing there is a crack somewhere. Any reputable engine machine shop will inspect the head for cracks prior to checking it for flatness then again after machining.

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timk

03-20-2004 05:22:37




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 Re: Re: z-129 head gasket seal in reply to Ray,IN, 03-19-2004 18:35:38  
The head was machined flat and checked for cracks during the beginning of the overhaul. I took the head back to the same shop after the first failure of the gasket and had it checked again.
The head and block were both checked with straight
edge and feeler stock. Both of my failures on the head gasket show up in
similar ways. With the system pressurized I have
observed water seep at gasket to block seal and water transfer to pushrod hole. The first one only looked to be leak at intake pushrod hole on
cylinder #4. This time it looks like leaks exist
at other pushrod holes.
Is it possible for water to leak through the gasket ??

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Ray,IN

03-20-2004 21:07:51




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 Re: Re: Re: z-129 head gasket seal in reply to timk, 03-20-2004 05:22:37  
It's highly unlikely for water to leak through two new head gaskets in succession. Have you considered performing a compression check, twice-both dry and with an oil seal, immediatly after reassembling the engine? Frankly, I've never encountered this problem before so I'm thinking out loud here. If the compression check results are normal and don't show a quick leakdown I'm stumped.



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