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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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TO20 Engine locked-up?

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Marty

03-16-2004 16:56:20




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Was hooking up my brushhog the other day and as my mind told my arm to move the gear shift to reverse
my arm had a different idea and moved the gear shift into start. Starter engaged perfectly with the expected grinding sound and the engine died. Said a few choice words and tried to restart the engine. Heard starter relay engage but starter did not turn. Tried once more w/no luck. Felt starter - it was warm. Put tractor in nuteral and pushed down hill to try to pop the clutch - 3rd gear. Back tires skidded. Tried to start again - this time starter just spinned/grinded-like teeth not engaging flyweel. Said more choice words. Pulled bottom flyweel cover off and noted position of flywheel. Neighbor stopped by and we pulled tractor back up hill- tried to pop clutch again and backtires skidded. Looked at position of flywheel, it did not move. Removed starter. Teeth show wear but not real bad. Removed spark plugs to see if I could try to turn engine by hand. Tried BF screwdriver on flywheel teeth and then shaft of screwdriver on front of engine where hand crank goes. Did not budge. Said all choice words I know in one sentence. Question: >Should I be able to turn engine by this method? >What could have possibly happened when I engaged starter w/engine running? > If engine is locked-up what would be my next step or steps?


Thanks in advance for any input.

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Rory

03-16-2004 21:35:35




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 Re: TO20 Engine locked-up? in reply to Marty, 03-16-2004 16:56:20  
Check and seee if you can turn the engine with the clutch depressed , it may be in two gears at the same time common problem with older equiptment! easy to fix by removing the shift cover.
rory



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RAR/IA

03-17-2004 07:24:32




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 Re: Re: TO20 Engine locked-up? in reply to Rory, 03-16-2004 21:35:35  
It is not jammed in two gears because he towed it up the hill twice. Cannot move if in two gears.

Also no need to remove top of trans cover if jammed. A long screw driver or pry bar thru the large oil fill hole will move the gears that jam. Trial and error can determine which gears to move.

Roger



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Duner Wi

03-16-2004 18:43:35




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 Re: TO20 Engine locked-up? in reply to Marty, 03-16-2004 16:56:20  
Early TO 20's had the ring gear installed from the transmission side of flywheel. Overtime the starter can push the ring gear partially off the flywheel and ring gear will hit the transmission case/bell housing and lock everything up. One fix is to purchase a later model flywheel which has the ring gear installed from the opposite side or work up a scheme with bolts and washers to hold it in place. I seem to remember someone welding ring gear to flywheel. I don't reccomend it but it might work. About 6 evenly spaced bolts with washers worked for me. Seems I had to do a little bending on the washers to get them to push against the ring gear. Good luck!

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marty

03-17-2004 09:08:35




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 Re: Re: TO20 Engine locked-up? in reply to Duner Wi, 03-16-2004 18:43:35  
Duner Wi: Thank you. You hit the ring gear on the flywheel. I just looked again and I can see where the ring gear is pushed back off the lip of the flywheel about 3/8 to 1/2" inch. I can also see now where the ring gear is against the housing. Measured how far starter gear throws out and it works out that the starter may engage ring gear for maybe 1/16" to 1/8".
Does "pushing" the ring gear back on the flywheel require any "special" tools or, not having split a tractor before, should I have the local tractor shop do it and install the later model flywheel as you suggested?

Again Thanks for your help in analyzing this problem.

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Duner Wi

03-17-2004 15:13:46




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 Re: Re: Re: TO20 Engine locked-up? in reply to marty, 03-17-2004 09:08:35  
I don't thinkyou will find an easier tractor to split than a TO20. I block up the engine and place wedges on each side of the axle so the engine should not tip and roll the back of the tractor away from the engine. Floor jack should work under the transmission. Hard surface is best for the floor jack. Getting the old ring gear pushed up to the the shoulder on the flywheel can be tricky. I put a new ring gear on mine to be safe. If you went with the six evenly spaced bolts I would think you could push it back together with the bolts . I did my flywheel in 1987 and no problem since. Good luck!

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RAR/IA

03-16-2004 18:18:20




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 Re: TO20 Engine locked-up? in reply to Marty, 03-16-2004 16:56:20  
It is really jammed now. Twice down the hill. Try putting it in high gear and rocking in backward/reverse direction by hand and then pull it backward if rocking doesn't work. Be careful not to upset over backwards (coasting down hill backwards and let the clutch out---don't do it!!) . May have to split the engine/trans to free it up. May have to any way to repair the ring gear on the flywheel.

Luck
Roger

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marlowe

03-16-2004 17:06:12




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 Re: TO20 Engine locked-up? in reply to Marty, 03-16-2004 16:56:20  
P.S. one or two teeth is all it takes to jam it



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marlowe

03-16-2004 17:04:25




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 Re: TO20 Engine locked-up? in reply to Marty, 03-16-2004 16:56:20  
is the nose on the starter and starter drive in tack bet you got a busted part wedged between the fly wheel and housing seen that more then once



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marty

03-16-2004 17:50:23




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 Re: Re: TO20 Engine locked-up? in reply to marlowe, 03-16-2004 17:04:25  
Marlow, All the teeth are on the starter gear. Does not appear to be parts broken off starter housing. Something jammed between flywheel & housing makes sense. I did not see or feel anything through vacant starter hole or with bottom inspection plate removed. I'm looking for some ideas on how to verify something is jammed and if so, how would I remove the jam. Thanks



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marlowe

03-16-2004 19:00:51




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 Re: Re: Re: TO20 Engine locked-up? in reply to marty, 03-16-2004 17:50:23  
get some jack stands and split it 2 hr. job and you will find whats wrong



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