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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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What to do

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Mark

02-17-2004 19:44:49




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My TO-20 engine is shot and it is now in the machine shop. It will costs $1400-1800 to get rebuilt. I do not think the tractor is worth it and am considering parting it out. No cracks were found in the block, crank or head so I think there would be a good demand for those items. Any idea what these parts are worth?




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Paul in Ms

02-20-2004 04:40:05




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 Re: What to do in reply to Mark, 02-17-2004 19:44:49  
Mark I rebuilt my to-20 in 1975. We had $700 in it at the time. I have never been back into the engine since. I feel it will go 25 more years the way I use it on my small farm. I know you will have more in it then it worth but it last almost for ever. Go for the rebuild yourself and enjoy this fine tractor.



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Mr Chapp

02-18-2004 18:10:17




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 Re: What to do in reply to Mark, 02-17-2004 19:44:49  
Agree with Jerry, Jim, and the good capt. Kirk. Get a manual, read it well, find a machine shop that's not quite so hungry, and do it yoyrself. Ifyou're looking for an excuse to get rid of the tractor, you've found one. If you want to keep it, a worn cam certainly wont keep it from running. Worn lifters will give a slightly incorrect adjustment....on,and on, and on. How much will a replacement cost? Good luck, have fun!!!

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Jerry/MT

02-18-2004 11:31:24




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 Re: What to do in reply to Mark, 02-17-2004 19:44:49  
Mark, I faced this dilema on my T0-30. First of all,how do you know all these things are wrong with it? I'll assume you dismantled it and took it into a shop and all these thinga are true.
What do you use it for? Do you still need it? If the answer is yes, than what will a replacement cost? If it's more thn $16-1800, you probably ought to fix it. I bought mine at $2200 in 1996, rebuilt the head ($450), replaced the flywheel ($175)myself, bought a remanufactured short block ($1485) and installed it myself. I just had the distributor rebuilt and added a Pertronix ignition ($200). I've also replaced plug wires, hoses thermostats and all the small change stuff.I need to replace the front axle pivot pin/bushing and a bushing on the rockshaft before it's all done with. I have been doing this over a period of years.I still use the tractor to pull my pipe trailer and plow the driveways and the wife's garden. Nobody will pay me for what I have in it, but then again I don't need to sell it. I have a Ford 4610 with a loader for my heavy work and use the TO-30 for the small stuff. I don't think you can replace your machine for $1800, and with a bum engine what can you get for it even parting it out? And how long will that take? I went through waht you're going through when I had to replace the engine and decided it was worth doing. I don't know what's right for you. Only you can decide that.

I just decided that there is a place on my ranch for my 1954 TO-30.

Hope this helps you.

P.S. The block might be worth as much as $400-$600.

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Mark

02-18-2004 18:22:56




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 Re: Re: What to do in reply to Jerry/MT, 02-18-2004 11:31:24  
Jerry, where did you find a remanufactured shortblock for $1450?



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Jerry/MT

02-18-2004 18:29:42




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 Re: Re: Re: What to do in reply to Mark, 02-18-2004 18:22:56  
Mark,

I found it at Farmland Tractor 877-928-1646 or farmlandtractor@aol.com. They're located in Salem, OR. That might be aways from you but call them up and they might be able to put you on to someone in your area. At the time that I bought my short block they were having some of the furnace brazing for crack repair done in the Midwest.

Hope this helps.



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steveormary

02-17-2004 21:42:28




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 Re: What to do in reply to Mark, 02-17-2004 19:44:49  
Mark,the repairs sound high to me. But I havnt had an engine worked on for some time now. And some of the work I could do myself. But I would say go ahead and fix it up.



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etshobby

02-19-2004 18:10:53




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 Re: Re: What to do in reply to steveormary, 02-17-2004 21:42:28  
Steve, I forgot I replaced the pto and bearings upgraded to 1&3/8 this was an extra expense sold the old one on e-bay recovered about 40% of the cost.I also put in a new radiator 110.00 sold the old one had a hole been patched got $25.



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etshobby

02-19-2004 18:00:30




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 Re: Re: What to do in reply to steveormary, 02-17-2004 21:42:28  
Steve, I rebuilt my to30 engine everything my block was not cracked. New no regrinds crankshaft,cam, lifters,oilpump rebuilt, timing gears, valves all seals gaskets, clutch,throwout bearing,water pump, rebuilt distributor,all main bearings rods and bearings, in other words nothing old left a little shopping between here and other sites can save you a lot $. You dont need the block planed or the head if wasnt cracked or wrapped .I was able to do everything but didnt want to do the head so I took all the parts springs, lock ,valves, seats to an auto parts and had them boil the head and puts the parts in 75.00 everything else I was able to do I also went for the increased bore new sleeve, pistons ,rods, pins & 12volt starter&bendix , rebuilt full rewind new oil gauge my total cost came in parts without the 75.00 at $1173.18. Now I exchanged the crank because my old one would have to be turned to 40 thousand. I sold all the used parts on ebay and got a liitle over 110.00 what a shock the lifters sold for more then the new ones cost me.The labor was all mine. The nice thing is I know what I have a brand new used tractor and anouther fifty years again ready to go. But if you put on e-bay I just might buy some of what you have, cheap.lol My riding mower cost me 1 &1/2 times this, hope for fifty also but 10 probably it. gene

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Jim W

02-18-2004 04:50:33




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 Re: Re: What to do in reply to steveormary, 02-17-2004 21:42:28  
You could spend (I bet less than) half as much and do it on your own. Then you would save money, have a tractor, and have the immense satisfaction of having done it yourself.
Look at all the help you can get right here. If you aren't in a rush and ask lots of questions, it will turn out fine. Just don't tell yourself you can't - at this point what do you have to lose?
My two cents.
Jim

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Mark

02-18-2004 10:32:01




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 Re: Re: Re: What to do in reply to Jim W, 02-18-2004 04:50:33  
If I assemble myself it will still costs around $1600. The items I am told need done are new cam ($120), line bore block ($120), machine surface deck of block ($108), grind crank ($90), recondition rods ($160), Rebuild head labor ($191), grind lifters ($48), and rebuild kit adds another ($600). I have about $1600 in this tractor and add another $1600 and now I have $3200 in a tractor that is worth around $2100. The rest of it is not in very good shape. If I part out I could easily break even if not make a little. I have done enough engine work where I can do alot myself but I can not do machine work. Thanks for the input.

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Jim W

02-19-2004 11:41:19




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: What to do in reply to Mark, 02-18-2004 10:32:01  
These prices are more than I pay in Canadian dollars.
I am not a mechanic or a machinist but I will step out on a limb here and state that I can't imagine how an engine could possibly have all those things wrong at once. Needing the block decked has got to be pretty rare. If decking the block, surely the head needs to be planed as well?
Recondition rods for $160? Rebuild head labour $191? I can only imagine the blank stare I would be giving the guy that told me that - try somewhere else for a more pleasant answer.
Jim

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capt kirk

02-18-2004 11:01:44




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: What to do in reply to Mark, 02-18-2004 10:32:01  
mark im a mechanic by day and wanna be tractor guy in evenings. the prices u quoted are astronomical.car rods run 11$ a piece to recon. the only reason i would line bore a block is if it spun a main bearing.the rods you can check with a micrometer to see if out of round or tapered. they may not need reconned these are not high speed engines and are built extremely heavy duty.i would use a good straight edge and feeler gauge to check block surface it also could be ok.unfortunatly there are alot of dishonest machine shops around. im not saying this one is , but i would get a 2nd opinion from another shop if u are still not comfortable doing yourself.this seems to be an unneccesary demise to your tractor that im sure youll regret if u dont do yourself.

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capt kirk

02-18-2004 16:50:26




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What to do in reply to capt kirk, 02-18-2004 11:01:44  
mark i have to correct myself on rod measurement .youll need a bore indicater or inside mic. but still a good shop does this for very little to check them.



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Jan in Utah

02-19-2004 12:44:58




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What to do in reply to capt kirk, 02-18-2004 16:50:26  
I can relate to what I think Mark's concern is and that is to replace or refit anything that is questionable while the engine is down. To me it's like replacing a clutch and disc without replacing the throw-out bearing. Once you've gone to the trouble to tear it down, I say put the time and money into a quality repair so you don't have to go back in again in 6 months. Yes, you've got more invested, but you also know what you've got and leave a lot less to chance. My thoughts.

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Jim W

02-19-2004 16:24:10




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What to do in reply to Jan in Utah, 02-19-2004 12:44:58  
I could handle that logic alright but what has me going is the charges for labour. They just seem way out of line. And also for something like decking the block, you wouldn't do that just because you were in there, right? I mean, it would either need it or it wouldn't. And how far would you go with connecting rods? Balance them within 0.1 grams? This isn't a race car. I think the machinist is getting carried away. But I am not there, haven't seen the engine, am not an expert, etc, so this is only my opinion.
Jim
(PS I would replace the throwout bearing too.)

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capt kirk

02-20-2004 05:24:07




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What to do in reply to Jim W, 02-19-2004 16:24:10  
jim when i do rods in a auto engine if they all came from same engine i found it unneccesary to even rebalance. ive ran many of these over 100k with no problem. also shouldnt the sleeves set a slight bit above the block for gasket seal?by the way i agree with your earlier post on ring gap it needs to always be checked;on some engines i biuld it is sometimes different depending on use and fuel used.

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