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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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TEA 20 Hydraulic Problem #2

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Todd (Aust)

09-09-2003 05:38:46




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I had a hydraulic problem last week and found that I had blown the end off the ram cylinder housing. I also found that the small shaft inside the control valve had broken (Or maybe I broke it). I have just replaced both, and was confident that all my problems were over, but after assembly all, I tried the hydraulic and no joy. It sounded like it was trying to lift, but it was like it kept lifting and again a noise from inside (at only low rev's), after again removing the oil and hydraulic pump I have again blown the end off the lift cylinder housing. What have I done wrong? Any ideas. Thanks Todd.

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john(UK)

09-09-2003 11:03:34




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 Re: TEA 20 Hydraulic Problem #2 in reply to Todd (Aust), 09-09-2003 05:38:46  
Hi Todd, So now we know where that spring came from don't we? Yes it was you who broke the control valve so dont try to wriggle out of it, I did say be careful. 1.Did the hydraulics lift at all? 2.Did you fit a NEW ram cylinder or a used one, if it was used did you move the piston at all before you put it into the tractor or did you put it in as you received it? To do that it must have built a pressure up, unless the cylinder was faulty in some way...OR the relief valve is stuck but that can damage pump too and when the cylinder smashed again all the pressure should have stopped anyway. 3.When you replaced the broken part in the control valve did you fit the spring as well or did you fit a complete valve? If you didnt fit the spring the control valve would stay in one position not controlling no matter what you do with the lever and if you were unlucky enough for it to be in lift position it could cause all this. If you look on the parts list I sent you of the hydraulic pump, Item 10 you can see the valve and the spring fitted to it....Regards....John

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Todd (Aust)

09-09-2003 13:49:29




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 Re: Re: TEA 20 Hydraulic Problem #2 in reply to john(UK), 09-09-2003 11:03:34  
The arms were already in the up position, but it sounded like they were trying to lift further?
I could only get a second hand ram cylinder, not stocked by Bare & Co as a new part. I used the original pistion,and it seemed to move Ok in the cylinder. I fitted a complete new control valve spool. It was reasonably tight, could this of stuck in the open position? How do I check the relief valve.

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john(UK)

09-09-2003 15:33:45




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 Re: Re: Re: TEA 20 Hydraulic Problem #2 in reply to Todd (Aust), 09-09-2003 13:49:29  
Dont bother trying to check it without the correct equipment or you know someone with hydraulic tools as it can be dangerous to mess around with.The only way really is to substitue it for a new one. The control valve should not be tight at all it should be a nice easy sliding fit if it sticks obviously its wrong.Can't understand the linkage being up though like you say, did you fasten it up or what? But really no matter where it is the relief valve should blow and stop any damage. I remember having a piston rod stick on a worn piston and it lifted further than it should do, but it didn't do any damage like yours. Check the valve, make sure fork moves freely, make sure linkage moves up and down freely before you start up. Thinking about it, if the linkage was up and you hadnt fastened it up for any reason it must have somehow jammed and could only be that con-rod, I suppose that if its pushing at it at the wrong leverage it coud do something nasty, but it is a bit odd. But then again so was where had that spring had come from. Please keep in contact over this....John

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Todd (Aust)

09-10-2003 00:35:32




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: TEA 20 Hydraulic Problem #2 in reply to john(UK), 09-09-2003 15:33:45  
After some more checking found a few interesting points. My TEA is infact a 54 model(not 48 as previously advised) and thus it appears that the hydraulic relief valve is mounted in the top of the lift cover, under a large nut. (as per John (UK) sheet). Upon removal the spring has been damaged pushed upon itself and the shaft is bent. This may explain a lot. Now I can still not explain why the rams didn't go to full stroke (and the arms lift) priro to the pressure building up and blowing th end off the housing.

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john(UK)

09-10-2003 13:17:55




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TEA 20 Hydraulic Problem #2 in reply to Todd (Aust), 09-10-2003 00:35:32  
The reason it is bent is whoever had it out last fitted it but didn't make sure the shaft of the valve entered the hole in the cap nut and crushed it instead. If you found it in that state there couldnt be any pressure relief at all as the whole valve was compressed tightly onto the valve seat, so maybe in a way you are lucky that it hasn't done a lot more damage, like the pump itself.



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Todd (Aust)

09-09-2003 19:36:41




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: TEA 20 Hydraulic Problem #2 in reply to john(UK), 09-09-2003 15:33:45  
I was incorrect when I said the linkage was up, of course it wasn't up. It never did lift, but sounded like it was trying to. I've checked the control valve again, and it is too tight, I should have used the old one, it doesn't have any play but slides in very well. As you say even if the valve was too tight the relief valve should have let pressure off. The small shaft that attaches to the end of the control valve, which has the square section on the end, is this connected to anything or just there to stop the vlave turning ? Looking at the ram cylinder pistion it was near the short end of the stroke when I removed it, only 1" from the end of the housing. It does look like pressure build up as it as broken back near the porting hole.

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john(UK)

09-10-2003 13:00:27




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TEA 20 Hydraulic Problem #2 in reply to Todd (Aust), 09-09-2003 19:36:41  
Yes the relief valve should have blown off, but because it was damaged obviously it couldn't do its job, so pressure built up. The small shaft you mention with the square on it is to oscilate the control valve to stop it sticking, the control valve should be an easy fit, when you try it in the sleeve make sure it is lubricated first, because that is how it is in the tractor and believe it or not the oil does take up some clearance so it must be free. The relief valve may be difficult to find, up to now I haven't seen one advertised and some dealers dont know about this type. If as you say the pressure has built up, and it looks as though it have, what stopped the linkage from lifting? You must check the linkage for being completly free over the full range of lift, do this while the top is off and again when its is fitted but before you supply power to the hydraulic system.I will send you another picture of the Hydraulic pump that shows the oscilator Item 16, next to control valve. Please take care on re-assembly, dont handle anything roughly or it may cause more damage, the hydraulic sytem is quite robust but some of the components can be easily damaged with rough handling.

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Todd (Aust)

09-10-2003 15:17:46




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TEA 20 Hydraulic Problem # in reply to john(UK), 09-10-2003 13:00:27  
With the top cover off and upside down on the floor, with the end propped up using a block under the yoke, I can move the arms up and down, is reasonably free, to get it to move I must restrain the yoke by placing a foot to hold it down while lifting the arms up. Does this seem free enough There is also a little play in the arms, maybe 3/8" at the ends of the arm, obivioulsy a lot less at the ram arm.

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john(UK)

09-10-2003 16:17:12




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TEA 20 Hydraulic Probl in reply to Todd (Aust), 09-10-2003 15:17:46  
Hi Todd, Well actually NO it isnt, the linkage cross-shaft should move freely and without anything needed to hold it down while you move it. The movement in the lift arms, well of course it shouldnt be there but what can you expect after 40 years or so, the reason you get wear like that is shock loading on the lift system, you know charging around with something on the hydraulics bouncing up and down, not good practice no matter what age the tractor is, the loading must be fantastic at times.Well not much you can do about the play now, But the movement in the up and down range, really to free it you need to pull the cross-shaft out of it and clean up the bearings and cross-shaft, but while its still fairly free you could try immersing the lift cover in some penetrating liquid, like diesel, and leave it for a while, certainly overnight moving it a few times after it has been soaking for a while see how that goes, if it doesnt work it requires stripping down. Hope it frees off easily for you though.

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Todd (Aust)

09-12-2003 19:53:13




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TEA 20 Hydraulic P in reply to john(UK), 09-10-2003 16:17:12  
I found the problem was only one of the nuts on the side of the lift arms was too tight. Half a turn backed off and movement is now fine. Have reassembled and a hydraulic is now better than ever. Thanks very much John (UK) your answers really helped. I managed to get a good second hand relief valve for the lift cover, but I have still concerned that it is still not right. The large square nut is protruding about 3/4" with plenty of tension on the spring, if I go any tighter then is starts to distort the spring. If i went all the way in i am sure I would completely distroy the spring and also bend the shaft. Thus have I go the right spring? Any spec's avaliable, or should there be a lock nut on the square nut maybe to lock in position while not being fully in. I have ordered the manuals from this site, but are still waiting for them to arrive?

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john(UK)

09-13-2003 05:27:45




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TEA 20 Hydraul in reply to Todd (Aust), 09-12-2003 19:53:13  
third party image

Hi Todd, Sorry I don't have any spec on that spring at all, the valve stem should protrude through the spring about 1/2" from what I remember so it can go into the big nut. The big nut does not have a locknut and should screw fully into the cover,(see the attachment below, at the bottom of the page is a picture showing the nut in position) I think that the seat for this valve is NOT screwed in fully into the Hydraulic cover. If you remove the valve assy again, you will see a cut-out in the seat to enable a screwdriver to be used to unscrew it (personally I used a chisel that was just wide enough with the edge ground away so I could use a spanner/wrench to turn it) there should be nothing under that seat at all, it simply screws into the cover. Just be careful that you dont damage the threads when unscrewing and screwing the seat back in though.Be careful you dont drop the ball when you dismantle it, a blob of grease will hold it in place while you reassemble.Hope you have more luckthis time. Regards.

http://users.netlink.com.au/~fergy/positioncontrol.htm

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Jim W

09-09-2003 07:34:08




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 Re: TEA 20 Hydraulic Problem #2 in reply to Todd (Aust), 09-09-2003 05:38:46  
It is supposed to be that when the lift arms reach the top, the piston is just emerging slightly from the cylinder and its edges push on the control valve linkage, which in turn pulls the control valve out a bit, so the lift action stops.
If this is out of adjustment, AND the pressure relief valve is not opening, maybe that would explain it.
Kind of a wild guess but maybe it will give you something to look for.
From the diagram at the link below you can see the action although he hasn't shown the piston emerging from the cylinder. Jim

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