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Ploughing with a TED
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James, UK

05-06-2003 06:41:10




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Following on from last week's ploughing thread successful weekend of ploughing with a TED 20-85 has just occurred. Well, the green stuff turned brown, at least, even if it wasn't pretty.

So this is posted to provide hints/comments for anyone else mad enough to try.

For those interested, the plough was a 2 furrow 14" semi-digger Dowdeswell. I still feel that this is probably a bit too heavy a plough for this ground and this tractor, and would be better mounted to a Fordson Major or similar.

Prior to yomping across Kent to the field of doom, we checked the top link sensing - by levering the rocker back with a tommy bar - the 3pt lifted as planned with no perceptible compression movement on the spring. Top link spring is correctly adjusted (as before) so that it is just possible to rotate the spring with a plough mounted to the tractor, but there is no endplay in the spring.

Quadrant adjustment was set very carefully - it is a sensitive little fellow - using a 2 1/8" mark from the top of the quadrant lock channel. Whole lift mechanism now very much better behaved, and 'fingertip control' is restored once more.

Everything worked as it should - and we still sat up and begged going uphill - traction-a-plenty - and are still not using duals so suffered from wheel slip, too. We used 1st gear only, in hard ground at about half throttle.

Interesting side note - discovered that the lift mechanism would lock in raised position if the quadrant lever was left at the very top of the quadrant for any length of time (constant pumping position?) when turning on the headlands. Only way to lower plough was to disengage PTO, jump on plough, and move quadrant lever through whole movement repeatedly. Tiresome until we found the cause!!

Has anyone else noticed similar behaviour in their hydraulics or is this to be expected??

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john(UK)

05-06-2003 13:37:18




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 Re: Ploughing with a TED - comments/info in reply to James, UK, 05-06-2003 06:41:10  
Just another thing I thought about since sending that last mail. When the plough is in work does the tractor control the depth or not, if as you are working and you place your hand on the linkage under the seat you should feel it constantly raising and lowering with a slight vibration ( the vibration is the pump lifting) and if you look back along the furrow wall you should see a slight undulation of the furrow bottom, where the plough is pulled in to the ground then the tractor corrects the depth, if you are getting rather large corrections to the depth of work it is a sensing problem, all corrections should be relatively small. One thing bothers me from what you say, you said there was no perceptible movement of the control spring when you tried it with a tommy bar, well there should be some otherwise it won't control correctly, check further that the control linkage from the control spring isn't siezed up or even just the rocker itself..Regards...John
Silly thought I know, but you are not using a plough with a depth wheel are you?

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James, UK

05-07-2003 00:52:16




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 Re: Re: Ploughing with a TED - comments/info in reply to john(UK), 05-06-2003 13:37:18  
For 'no perceptible movement' read 'it didn't move enough to measure or indicate the spring had gone soft'.

No, no depth wheel.



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john(UK)

05-07-2003 10:37:48




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 Re: Re: Re: Ploughing with a TED - comments/info in reply to James, UK, 05-07-2003 00:52:16  
Hi James, Well there should be some movement on the top link rocker or it wont be sensing, easiest way to see is raise the plough and see if spring turns easily with a little clearance and then lower the plough and see if it tightens the spring up, if it does at least you have some movement but still maybe not enough. I think I would check the rocker first, remove the pin through the end of the control spring trunnion and see if you can easily move the rocker, they get siezed up as you will appreciate with age and the odd bit of fertilser, if that is ok see about the control rod into the lift cover, if you can remove the trunnion and control spring, try to push the rod in, not easy I know, but the only quick way of checking it without stripping the lift cover from the tractor.(did I say quick?) Something else to note is, is the plough very heavy, is the front end of the tractor light when the plough is raised, so much so that it will come off the floor when you move off, if its so light weight would be required on the front end, but that is extreme. When the plough is in work, is there pressure down the top link or can you move the top link easily when its ploughing. We had a problem one time with an FE35 were the tractor wouldnt control the depth and we found that the plough was exactly balanced with the work it was doing, so it supportd the weight of the plough and the top link was doing nothing, so the tractor could not sense at all and that was with a double acting top link system so the TE20 with a single acting system wont stand a chance under those conditions. Would be pleased to hear of your findings.

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James, UK

05-09-2003 03:12:18




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Ploughing with a TED - comments/info in reply to john(UK), 05-07-2003 10:37:48  
I think this may be the problem - the front end is very light - its not much fun to drive on the road - very light steering.

The top link rocker/sensing adjustment is a red herring.

Next time I hook it up, I'll have a look at the geometry, and see where the extended 'line of sight' on the top link passes through the tractor and ends up. At present, I don't think it's far enough forward to get the down pressure on the front end.

Thanks for your input John.

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john(UK)

05-06-2003 13:16:42




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 Re: Ploughing with a TED - comments/info in reply to James, UK, 05-06-2003 06:41:10  
HI James, No this is not normal, there is no constant pumping position on a TE20 unlike the FE35 system. as the implement reaches the top of its lift it should move the control valve to neutral and should the implememnt lower due to leakage it should move back to lift position again. With regard to the plough and possibly the cause of problems you are having, check the height of the top link postion in relation to the lower links on the plough, is it CAT 1 dimensions or not in otherwords. you could check the dimensions against a genuine Ferguson implement, offhand that is the only other explanation I can think of. It could explain why you are having problems lowering, you may like to try it on another implement to see if it still happens. One other thing, if when you try the tractor with another implement and it still sticks at the top of its lift, then possibly the control valve in the hydraulic pump is worn and has a ridge on it allowing it to stick under load. Check the internal linkage happenings through the side cover see what happens when you move the control lever to lower (does it move the control valve or not)...and as you have warned ppl previously, KEEP YOUR FINGERS OUT.Hope you sort it without too much aggravation

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James, UK

05-07-2003 00:56:51




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 Re: Re: Ploughing with a TED - comments/info in reply to john(UK), 05-06-2003 13:16:42  
Thanks - strangely enough I have a new control valve sitting in the box of bits - JIC.

I am interested in your comments on the Cat 1 geometry - looking at the plough, the top link had a pronounced downhill slope to the tractor even when lowered to the ground - but I don't have another implement to test the theory out on. Better start saving, hadn't I.



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john(UK)

05-07-2003 13:20:44




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 Re: Re: Re: Ploughing with a TED - comments/info in reply to James, UK, 05-07-2003 00:56:51  
Hahahaha...yeah I think you maybe better had James...do you know anyone else that has a plough that you could measure, maybe this is your problem.....you say the top link has a pronounced slope on it, well to take the matter one step further, the top link in its correct working position, if you follow the line down the top link forward it should hit the floor just under or slightly forward of the front axle, so that when there is compression on the top link it not only senses it also pushes the front axle down on the floor. Has someone changed the linkage pins on the plough to CAT 1 but really its a CAT 2 that would account for the slope on the top link like you say. Keep me up to date please.

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