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Oil comming out of dip stick

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Mike UK

03-27-2003 04:39:22




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My 1952 TED 20 has just started to throw oil out of the dip stick hole and also has lost some power. I am told this is a sign of broken piston rings causing too much oil pressure in the sump. Is that correct? Compression test showed 50/65/65/65.
Are the any other symptoms I should look for?
Is it a straight forward procedure to replace the ring or are any special tools required. Also should anything else be replaced at the same time as the rings?

Many thanks in advance.

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kevin

03-27-2003 18:57:42




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 Re: Oil comming out of dip stick in reply to Mike UK, 03-27-2003 04:39:22  
I know its unlikely, but before you do anything rash, make sure the breather is not plugged!



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Ray,IN

03-27-2003 18:55:37




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 Re: Oil comming out of dip stick in reply to Mike UK, 03-27-2003 04:39:22  
Before getting crazy about this, I suggest you check the crankcase breather for obstruction. Even if something major is broken the breather should handle the blowby. Your compression is low, about half of a new engine) but tolorable since all 4 cyls test near each other. As you can tell, I subscribe to the KISS principle, and check all the easy to repair/replace parts first. If the breather tube is unobstructed you should feel an exhaust eminating from it since there seems to be enough pressure to push oil from the dipstick tube. Your engine definately needs rebuilt from the test you performed, but the blowing oil you describe is not a typical symptom. Good luck with your tractor.

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James, UK

03-28-2003 00:24:03




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 Re: Re: Oil comming out of dip stick in reply to Ray,IN, 03-27-2003 18:55:37  
Hi Ray,

In the past I've had more than the odd 'tired' diesel where blow-by was enough (even with perfect crankcase breathers) to pressurise the sump enough to prevent oil returning from the rocker cover - net result the engine sucks oil into the manifold and starts running on that as well as diesel = runaway engine = very scary. The quantity of gas coming out at tickover was surprisingly low, and once the oil warmed up and thinned out, it didn't do the runaway thing.

Luckily I don't think petrol engines can do that.

The head, valve guides, and valves on mine were shot, and the breather was blocked but it still didn't do what the engine we are discussing did.

You're perfectly right about the exhaust/gases emanating from the breather and anywhere else they can get out, and yes the KISS priniciple is a good one to live by.

I sometimes assume that people cover this stuff off before posting here - mea culpa - and thanks for the reminder!

James, UK

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James, UK

03-27-2003 07:00:12




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 Re: Oil comming out of dip stick in reply to Mike UK, 03-27-2003 04:39:22  
Afternoon Mike,

Apart from the broken rings option, you also have the worn valve guides option which gives you the same effect (gases going where they shouldn't). If it was a sudden change, then broken rings is most likely.

50/65/65/65 does seem a bit low, if it's a P/P engine I think around 100 to 120 - from memory - someone posted a question on compression.

Another possibility is a broken piston crown if you dropped a valve head.

I would suggest that you need to at least remove the head and take a further look. Removing the pistons on the Standard petrol engine can only be done from below (I don't believe the big end will fit up through the bore) so it is an engine out/crankshaft off job.

Replacing the rings is easy enough, but you will need a piston ring compressor (Halfords) to make life easier - get the rings on the right way up, though. Torque wrench will also be needed, plus normal assortment of tools, large and small hammers, stud removers, sticking plasters, and your choice of alcohol.

If you are going to do all that, deglaze the bores and replace the liners if needed, reseat the valves, check your clutch for wear as it will be a good time to change it, replace the clutch thrust and pilot bearings, replace the transmission input shaft seal, replace the front and rear crankshaft seals (and any others you come across), check your main and big end bearings for wear, check crankshaft for ovality, replace oil pump if pressure was lowish, check for wear in the gudgeon pins, and generally try to ensure that you don't have to split your tractor again.

This is an off the cuff, worst case listing . . . so don't get despondent . . . . it may not be that bad.

Mark everything as it comes off so that all the parts go back in exactly the same places on reassembly - eg pushrods, tappets, pistons, big end and main bearing caps, position of clutch cover on flywheel, etc.

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James, UK - link to compression posting, plus

03-27-2003 07:09:28




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 Re: Re: Oil comming out of dip stick in reply to James, UK, 03-27-2003 07:00:12  
See the archives for more info. Also Larry may be right about getting the pistons UP out of the bore, but I think I was told once that you had to get them out from underneath - worth checking before you split the tractor!



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Jim W

03-27-2003 14:41:47




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 Re: Re: Re: Oil comming out of dip stick in reply to James, UK - link to compression posting, plus, 03-27-2003 07:09:28  
The pistons can definitely come up; the big end fits through the bore with room to spare. I just did this a little while ago (well on a TEA but I am quite sure they are the same as far as this goes).
However, there is very likely a ridge near the top of the sleeve, and any rings you might have saved may be broken as they hit the ridge on the way up. It may not matter much as once you've gone that far, you really should replace the rings as a set anyway.
I would take the sleeves out, which gives you the chance to thoroughly clean the crud out of the water jackets, and to replace the "figure-8" gaskets between the sleeves and the block to ensure a good seal.
Jim W.

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James, UK

03-28-2003 00:07:08




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Oil comming out of dip stick in reply to Jim W, 03-27-2003 14:41:47  
Thanks for answering that one Jim - I'll try to remember that when I need to do mine - luckily they're still OK after 51 years!



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Larry in Missouri

03-27-2003 11:29:45




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 Re: Re: Re: Oil comming out of dip stick in reply to James, UK - link to compression posting, plus, 03-27-2003 07:09:28  
James, you probably know a lot more about Standard engines than I. I have removed pistons from a 1300cc Spitfire engine from the top, but then, that's not a wet sleeve engine. I would love to have a TR4...
Best to check it out in a shop manual before removing anything!!!!

Larry



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Larry in Missouri

03-27-2003 06:53:58




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 Re: Oil comming out of dip stick in reply to Mike UK, 03-27-2003 04:39:22  
Since you probably have the Standard engine, I'm not sure I know too much about the difficulty of changing rings. It DOES sound like blowby is causing high crankcase pressure, making the oil spit out the dipstick opening. That means your rings are not keeping the pressure up in the cylinder where it does you more good. I'm pretty sure the Standard engine is sleeved like the Continental, so if you just want to change rings, make sure after pulling the head you secure the sleeves in the block by putting some big washers on bolts that go into the head stud holes. They will keep the sleeves from sliding up and losing their seal with the block at the bottom. You should be able to do this with the engine still in the tractor. Remove the oil pan and the head, secure the sleeves, then unbolt the big end caps on the rods and pull the pistons out from the top. Of course, the washers you use to secure the sleeves can't intrude into the cylinder, otherwise the pistons won't come out. I would use new big end bolts when reassembling, too.
Good luck!

Larry in Missouri

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