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Very Low Oil Pressure / Crankshaft journals

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Mike

01-29-2003 12:55:13




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Greetings all,

My friend has a 1952 TEA2085. We just got in running nicely, only to find, once its fully warmed up it has little or no oil pressure.
(5 -6 psi)

We took the oil pan off it, had a look at the oil
pump, which was changed 2 years ago. It looks very
good. Good close tolerances. Has lots of pressure
when cold.

So we pulled 2 Rod caps and the central main bearing with thrust bearing. The mains were in good shape, but the rod bearings were considerably scored. I also noted that the rod bearings where "030" which is the last over size.
no more room for a re grind.

SO i have a few questions;

1) What should the oil pressure be fully warm?

2) Does anyone know a source where i can get a remanufactured crank? ( rebuilt, used or new)

3) IS there anything else in this motor that could by pass oil, like the cam or lifters?
In other words, is there another know "sore spot" with this motor that can cause low oil pressure?

4) It there some other motor that will bolt into this unit? Like an 8N?


Thanks greatly in advance for your response, any help you can give us is muchly appreciated, with no oil pressure and a bad crank where kinda in a real pickle.

Cheers & Thanks

Mike

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James, UK

01-30-2003 00:36:36




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 Re: Very Low Oil Pressure / Crankshaft journals in reply to Mike, 01-29-2003 12:55:13  
Mike,

I'm with Ray on this one - its not uncommon here in the UK to find TEs running with 5 - 6 pounds on the Standard engine (or around 8 lbs at full throttle) and his comments on the new oils used are spot on.

Don't worry too much - I checked the big end and main bearings on mine, and it was still running on the ORIGINAL 1951 bearing set. I replaced the big end (rod cap) and main bearings anyway, and carried on.

A favourite wear spot is the cam journals especially the rear one, so the oil takes the easy way out there - and the pressure drops.

With the additives in todays oils, you don't need to worry much, as long as the valves/top end are getting oil you will be OK. Just take the rocker cover off, and see how wet and sticky it is in there

The other thing to bear in mind is that a 50 year old gauge is only going to show you there is pressure of some sort there - they were never that accurate anyway - so think of them as an indicator only, not a gauge as we 21st century types know them. Just swapping the gauge may instantly improve your oil pressure!!

FWIW, my two pence worth.

James, UK

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Phil (VA)

01-29-2003 13:58:02




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 Re: Very Low Oil Pressure / Crankshaft journals in reply to Mike, 01-29-2003 12:55:13  
The Continental engines Z120 and Z129 may bolt up. You might find one from Johnny Lindgren at Mac Tractor in Colcord, OK. Of course, you might try heavier straight weight oil, but as you know that is really just masking the issue which would appear to be the bearings.



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Mike

01-29-2003 16:05:51




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 Re: Re: Very Low Oil Pressure / Crankshaft journals in reply to Phil (VA), 01-29-2003 13:58:02  
Hi Phil,

Thanks for the response. Ya heavy oil, We've been running 20 - 50 in it for awhile. Even with that grade our oil pressure was 5 - 6 PSI.

However, I may have found a crank in the local
tractor wreckers. Guy says it has std bearing set so i can send it away to be re-ground.

Friday we pull the motor and take a look at all
other sources of potential problems like the Cam journals and rockers etc. before i spend money on getting a crank done. I want to make sure that its not bleeding off oil pressure somewhere else.

Thanks & Cheers
Mike

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Ray,IN

01-29-2003 18:48:52




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 Re: Re: Re: Very Low Oil Pressure / Crankshaft journals in reply to Mike , 01-29-2003 16:05:51  
These engine are designed and recommended to utilize straight non-detergent 30W30 motor oil in warm weather and 20W20 in cold weather. As long as any pressure registers on the original gauge and the rocker arms aren't clattering you should not be alarmed as the gauge is not accurate. The oil pressure relief valve is set to 30psi max., and 5 psi at idle is common. Detergent oil will eventually ruin the original seals and loosen sludge. The sludge will clog oil passages(and bearing oil holes) reducing or stopping the flow of oil. When you rebuild your engine using new seals etc., and clean out all sludge you may then safely use detergent motor oils. Multi-weight oils, by design, are thinner than straight weight oils. This is not suited to the clearances of old engines. In extreme useage even todays HD engine mfgrs. recommend straight weight oil. I've got the TO30 Dad bought new in 1953. The engine's never been apart for repairs while being subjected to daily farm use all these years. We have performed preventative per the owners manual as closely as possible and now I'm reaping the rewards of this policy. I restored the tractor in 1989, lighting, rear tires, and cosmetic work was the only repairs needed. That's my story FWIW.

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Jim W

01-29-2003 21:05:39




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Very Low Oil Pressure / Crankshaft journals in reply to Ray,IN, 01-29-2003 18:48:52  
Ray, I think the oil pressure relief settings you speak of must be for the Continental engine.
On my one 2085 I am getting close to 80 pounds cold and 25-30 hot. On the other which I just rebuilt, I spun the oil pump shaft with a drill before installing the distributor and the relief valve seemed to be working at about 70 pounds. Granted these cases are both with the original old gauges but the numbers are also consistent with the similar Triumph engine of the same era.

Also, I do think you can get 0.040 under bearings for this motor if that becomes necessary.
Jim W.

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Ray,IN

01-30-2003 16:40:19




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Very Low Oil Pressure / Crankshaft journals in reply to Jim W, 01-29-2003 21:05:39  
Jim W. You're right, I was speaking of the Continental engines. We Americans are sometimes accused of narrow thinking about the rest of the world. Guess I stepped into that pit. Sorry



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