Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Attention Forum Users: On the 28th of December 2023 at 9:00am Central Time, we will be taking the forums down for maintenance while we prepare the new forums for your use. Please click here for more information.

Discussion Forum
:

TO-20 engine conversions

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
Steve-o

12-25-2002 14:48:40




Report to Moderator

Merry Christmas everyone! Do any of you folks out there know of any engine conversions for the TO-20? Let me know what you think!




[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
MICK

01-01-2003 14:15:05




Report to Moderator
 Re: TO-20 engine conversions in reply to Steve-o, 12-25-2002 14:48:40  
Thanks for the interest Ernie,unfortunately the Perkins prima engine has no provision for mounting a hydraulic pump on the timing case.This is because the timing on these engines is by toothed rubber belt.The only logical way I can see to mount an auxilary pump is to fit one forward of the rad.This applies to original engines as well,this would involve removing the bush from the front axle, opening up the pin holes in the front axle mounts to suit and using a hollow axle pin.A drive shaft could then pass through the axle pin to a forward mounted pump,mutch the same as used on Massey Ferguson 40B diggers. As far as posting pictures of my conversion goes I'm sorry I can't post any at the moment but i will as soon as I can .At the moment I don't have the tractor,a customer and good friend of mine is using it daily to take food out to his stock.The farmer who has the tractor was the reason I carried out the conversion in the first place, he has two TE20's , one twelve volt, and one six volt with Perkins P3 conversion.Both of these tractors have shot engines,the twelve volt has a split block internally,and the P3 has a split block and shot crank,by the way the P3 engine used for this conversion is totally different to the engine used in the Fordson dexta.As this farmer still uses his TE20's on his farm I started looking for an alternative engine to graft in.Petrol engines were never looked at,due to the fact that petrol in England is four times more expensive than agricultural diesel.I only looked at Diesel engines that were about the same capacity and physical dimensions to the original,finding the Perkins was a bonus as the water pipes hook up easily to the original fergy rad.As diesel engines are allready fitted with governors in the pump no external governor is needed.I never expected the engine to run at full revs as none of the Fordson Major conversions I have carried out would.At this moment I have four more TE20 conversions to carry out, two for my farmer friend and two more for me,both TE20's I have are fitted with Freeman saunders Diesels as factory fitments.One of my TE20's will be fitted with a Perkins prima,this will give me a pattern for any customers wanting this engine in the future.The other tractor(pile of scrap)may be brought back to life with a 2.5 litre six cylinder VOLKSWAGEN turbo diesel engine fitted, this engine looks a real winner.As the VOLKSWAGEN engine is a six it should pull mutch higher revs than a four before vibration sets in (6 cylinder engines have mutch better balance than a 4).The other thing I am considering at the moment is the possibillity of converting to four wheel drive,I am trying to use a mix of Landrover and Rangerover components but thats another story. I hope the above is of some use to Steve or anybody else who can make sense of it.If anyone else does go down the same route as me don't forget one thing, if someone says thats not a proper Fergy engine,just do like me and tell them that Harry Ferguson NEVER made an engine. Happy new year

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
cdmn

01-03-2003 12:16:29




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: TO-20 engine conversions in reply to MICK, 01-01-2003 14:15:05  
Thanks for the interesting ideas. Here, in Minnesota, the Volkswagen diesel was sold in early 1980's Volvos. They were not popular, and had almost zero resale value, so there might be some pretty good ones in the wrecking yards even yet. Another diesel engine sold here was a 4 cylinder Izuzu, available in small pickup trucks. Might be worth checking. A very few Ford Escorts were sold with cross-mounted diesels, and a few Midsized General Motors cars had cross-mounted V-6 diesels that were supposedly much improved over the more common 5.7 liter V8 diesels. Volkswagen sold quite a number of Rabbits with diesels, and of course, the Mercedes 300 diesel sold in large numbers. Not very common, but supposedly very good, were some Peugeot 505 diesels. So these are possibilities for Ferguson transplants.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
MICK

01-05-2003 13:20:04




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: TO-20 engine conversions in reply to cdmn, 01-03-2003 12:16:29  
In reply yo cdmn the Volkswagen engine I mentioned was used in the Volvo 760 turbo diesel car, in Europe it was also used in many light trucks.I never looked at any Japanese engines as good ones are not very plentiful and if I did find a good one it would not be cheep.The Ford Escort diesels were looked at,the 1600 is a nice little engine, but I thought it was a little bit too small.The 1800 diesel engine was also looked at as I thought this engine was about the right size,unfourtunately the engine has more against it than for it.Ford cast the backplate on these engines so you cant play about with the starter motor position,this is just one thing but with the position of the rest of the ancillaries I decided against it.The 4 cylinder Volkswagen engines were not looked at as I thought they were too small,and again not very plentiful over here. The merc 300 was never looked at,I only looked at small common engines that were compact and easy to get hold of.
The Peugot 505 engine you mentioned I take to be 2.5 turbo, I really like these engines, I ran one in a Ford pickup truck for years,they are a really good engine.There are a few problems with fitting this engine to a T20 but I think it could be done.The biggest problem is the length of the crank,the bottom pully would be very close to the front axle pivot pin.Until the engine was mounted on the gearbox it would be impossible to say how close the pully and pin would be.Mounting the Peugot engine to the gearbox is also a problem as the engine only has three mounting bolts holding it to the gearbox in the car.The front axle could be modified by swaping the front axle ends side to side and mounting them behind the middle section this would gain about 4" in front of the engine and keep the drag links and tie rods the original length.The rear of the engine could be drilled and tapped to give more mounting bolts and a pair of good strong chassis rails used.The above is possible but a lot of work,going to a breakers yard armed with a tape measure could save a lot of time in the long run,it took me a year to find an engine to fit, and then I ended up fitting the first one I had looked at and decided against.Happy hunting.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
MICK

01-01-2003 14:13:50




Report to Moderator
 Re: TO-20 engine conversions in reply to Steve-o, 12-25-2002 14:48:40  
Thanks for the interest Ernie,unfortunately the Perkins prima engine has no provision for mounting a hydraulic pump on the timing case.This is because the timing on these engines is by toothed rubber belt.The only logical way I can see to mount an auxilary pump is to fit one forward of the rad.This applies to original engines as well,this would involve removing the bush from the front axle, opening up the pin holes in the front axle mounts to suit and using a hollow axle pin.A drive shaft could then pass through the axle pin to a forward mounted pump,mutch the same as used on Massey Ferguson 40B diggers. As far as posting pictures of my conversion goes I'm sorry I can't post any at the moment but i will as soon as I can .At the moment I don't have the tractor,a customer and good friend of mine is using it daily to take food out to his stock.The farmer who has the tractor was the reason I carried out the conversion in the first place, he has two TE20's , one twelve volt, and one six volt with Perkins P3 conversion.Both of these tractors have shot engines,the twelve volt has a split block internally,and the P3 has a split block and shot crank,by the way the P3 engine used for this conversion is totally different to the engine used in the Fordson dexta.As this farmer still uses his TE20's on his farm I started looking for an alternative engine to graft in.Petrol engines were never looked at,due to the fact that petrol in England is four times more expensive than agricultural diesel.I only looked at Diesel engines that were about the same capacity and physical dimensions to the original,finding the Perkins was a bonus as the water pipes hook up easily to the original fergy rad.As diesel engines are allready fitted with governors in the pump no external governor is needed.I never expected the engine to run at full revs as none of the Fordson Major conversions I have carried out would.At this moment I have four more TE20 conversions to carry out, two for my farmer friend and two more for me,both TE20's I have are fitted with Freeman saunders Diesels as factory fitments.One of my TE20's will be fitted with a Perkins prima,this will give me a pattern for any customers wanting this engine in the future.The other tractor(pile of scrap)may be brought back to life with a 2.5 litre six cylinder VOLKSWAGEN turbo diesel engine fitted, this engine looks a real winner.As the VOLKSWAGEN engine is a six it should pull mutch higher revs than a four before vibration sets in (6 cylinder engines have mutch better balance than a 4).The other thing I am considering at the moment is the possibillity of converting to four wheel drive,I am trying to use a mix of Landrover and Rangerover components but thats another story. I hope the above is of some use to Steve or anybody else who can make sense of it.If anyone else does go down the same route as me don't forget one thing, if someone says thats not a proper Fergy engine,just do like me and tell them that Harry Ferguson NEVER made an engine. Happy new year

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
cdmn

12-27-2002 20:25:17




Report to Moderator
 Re: TO-20 engine conversions in reply to Steve-o, 12-25-2002 14:48:40  

I just bought an 860 Ford Diesel(junked)to see if it would fit my TEA20. I thought it would be representative of all Ford 4's from '53-64. For one thing, it's a longer engine, so that messes up the radius rods, and hood length. Second, the Bell Housing is about the same diameter, and some of the bolt holes line up pretty closely, but not exactly. Third, the starter mount is off. The aluminum clutch housing would need to be cut away to clear the starter nose, I think. The top two mounting bolts are in blind spots. You'd have to cut out part of the aluminum bell-housing to get the bolts in and out and get a wrench on them. You'd need to weld in material to maintain strength. Also, the original TEA20 had extra braces between the front axle support and bellhousing. This indicates to me that the 4 main screws may pull the threads out of the bellhousing under heavy impact. If the bellhousing is iron, that is less of a problem.

I haven't yet measured the clutch face distance and the pilot bearing fit between the Ford and the Ferguson. I have a Ford 2000 3 cylinder engine, but have a lot of doubts about the fit. It's still in the Ford tractor, however.

I looked over a Jeep 4 cyl engine. It might also fit, but has the same problems with starter and bolt access, I'm afraid. It also is so lightweight, that it couldn't carry much frontend load. You'd need a frame such as Massey to form a structure and not load up the engine.

I have a small Allis engine, but haven't done a side-by-side comparison. Might check that out tomorrow.

My next project is to measure out a Case VAC engine. It already has a problem with the starter being on the wrong side for the TEA20, but maybe that can be handled.

Of the car engines that have agricultural specs, I can only think of the Hudson Jet and Studebaker Champion Sixes. (Small bore, long stroke.) They are both flatheads. They also are longer, and probably the Hudson is the only one strong enough for the structural loads. You also have to adapt combine governors. For lugging power, you'd need to regrind the camshafts.

It all adds up to a pretty hard job, unless you live in England and can get the second hand adaptors for the Perkins set-up. Maybe you can have them shipped over and use them to adapt an engine from a Ford Dexta? But why cannibalize a Dexta to save an old Ferguson?

By the way, my TEA20 had a Z120 engine in it. It is shorter than the original Standard engine and had some shimming to fit the front axle support. Otherwise fit okay. I'm about to disassemble it to see if it's got any possibility of repair.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Fred OH

12-27-2002 07:30:54




Report to Moderator
 Re: TO-20 engine conversions in reply to Steve-o, 12-25-2002 14:48:40  
Wasn't it about a year ago that someone on the board here posted a pic of a fellow with new bibs on sitting on a Fergy that had a bow tie on the side of the hood and a chev V-6 installed. I kept it as desktop till hard drive went south. Seems to me that it was at a tractor get-together in SC. Anyone still got the pic? L8R....Fred OH



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Duner Wi

12-26-2002 14:19:16




Report to Moderator
 Re: TO-20 engine conversions in reply to Steve-o, 12-25-2002 14:48:40  
Search the archives for a post by DKase , he has an early small block in a Fergy. Needs to be a five bolt bellhousing and not the later 6 bolt.
Do a search on DKase.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Paul (WI)

12-26-2002 11:51:42




Report to Moderator
 Re: TO-20 engine conversions in reply to Steve-o, 12-25-2002 14:48:40  
The engine conversion is a good question because of all of the cracked blocks. I have an extra TO-30 tractor minus the engine, and am looking for a way to install either a 289 or a V-6 Ford engine. This would be a novelty item rather than strictly a work tractor. If any has heard of this being done, I would also like to get some ideas.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Brit. 1

12-26-2002 06:50:24




Report to Moderator
 Re: TO-20 engine conversions in reply to Steve-o, 12-25-2002 14:48:40  
perkins P.3 was the conversion I remember in UK.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Randy

12-26-2002 05:39:38




Report to Moderator
 Re: TO-20 engine conversions in reply to Steve-o, 12-25-2002 14:48:40  
Hi Steve-o: What kind of engine are you thinking of? A V8 to make a hot rod tractor, a 6 cylinder car or truck engine for making a not quite but almost hot rod, or a 4 cyl car engine to make it more modern, or maybe a Continental Z134 or Z145 from a bigger Massey Ferguson, again for more power? The biggest part of it would be making an adapter plate to make the engine and tranny go together, adapting the clutch, and engine mounts,and a frame to hold the front axle parts that usually mount on the front of the engine if you use a car/truck motor, but with a Cont. Z motor, it's a matter of clutch, and engine/tranny adapter plate. The front axle mount could be made to fit that motor since it normally has it anyway. My bro in law mounted a '69 Volvo 4 cyl car motor and tranny to an old Massey Harris, and used the tractor tranny too, so he had the Volvo 4 speed stick, the MH tranny and I think the Hi-Lo range gear too. So it can be done.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
MICK

12-30-2002 12:29:01




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: TO-20 engine conversions in reply to Randy, 12-26-2002 05:39:38  
I have recently carried out an engine conversion on a TO-20 .The engine I used was a 2 litre turbo diesel perkins prima diesel as used in many Austin cars ,and vans here in England.This engine has no cast on backplate - so a flat steel adaptor plate has to be made to join engine to bellhousing.The front axle carriage was thrown away as there is nowere to mount it on the block.I ran two chassis rails along the side of the block, these are welded to the adaptor plate and bolted to the original engine front mounts.An axle mounting can then be fabricated on the front of these rails along with rad mounts and hood mounts.As this engine is one inch higher than the original I raised the rad and hood mounts to suit,this enabled me to fit the original gas tank.An electric fan was fitted inside the original fan cowl to take care of cooling.The the accelerator linkage was coupled using the original cable from the car.The original TO-20 clutch was used,but a spacer plate needed to be made for the flyweel to get the friction plate in the right place.The clutch spacer plate also acts as extra weight on the flyweel to help the engine tickover at low revs. The rest of the ancillary engine equipment was then fited and the engine was rewired .As the engine is a turbo no silencer was needed on the exaust so i fitted a stainless pipe from a JCB 3CX digger.JOB DONE. All of this took about six months of spare time. Was it worth it? The engine is direct injection puts out about 80 horse power at 4500 RPM ,Max torque is made at about 2500 RPM and it starts first time every time.The engine is set to run at about 2600 RPM at the moment any higher and vibration shakes your fillings loose.The tractor will pull a 2 furrow 12 inch plough all day long and it never fails to draw a croud at ploughing matches. Cause it was worth it!

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Ernie(Wa)

12-30-2002 20:16:13




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: TO-20 engine conversions in reply to MICK, 12-30-2002 12:29:01  
Mick: Your conversion sounds very interesting. Do you have any pictures you could share? Could a hydraulic pump be hung on the side of the Perkins for loader applications. Probably limiting the engine speed to 2600 RPM will make your engine & transmission combination last much longer. Thanks



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy