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More Clarification Needed
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Live Hydraulics - Independent PTO

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Douro Bob

08-01-2002 09:58:04




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I got a couple of replies to an earlier post about this and when I went out to a couple of local independent tractor repair shops they looked at me like I had two heads so, let me try to boil this down to a yes or no kind of question - is there a Ferguson (or an early MF) model that I could search for that would allow me to do all of the following when running a bush hog?
1 - stop the tractor and leave the BH running
2 - stop the tractor, leave the BH running and raise and lower the 3ph arms
AND
3 - stop the tractor, stop the PTO and raise and lower the 3ph arms

If the answer to this question is YES, then I have two follow up questions:

1 - what is the model? does that include "Super" or "Deluxe" or ????

2 - would this type of set up be referred to as "live hydraulics AND INDEPENDENT PTO"?

Thanks for your collective wisdom on this.

Douro Bob

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Phil (VA)

08-01-2002 11:54:04




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 Re: More Clarification Needed - Live Hydraulics - Independent PTO in reply to Douro Bob, 08-01-2002 09:58:04  
I think the replies you just got from Dean and RHS are essentially the same as what I related in the earlier post from July 26. The tractor repair places you visited perhaps don't know Fergies all that well. In defense of them, however, they work on multiple makes and trying to pin them down on the semantics like "live hyraulics" etc. may not be productive, since different manufacturers used different terms. While I don't profess to be the mechanic many of these guys are, I own and use a TO-35 Deluxe and an F-40 and two TO-30s, one of which I restored. The 35 Deluxe and the 40 are essentially the same mechanically and are the earliest Fergies that do what you want. Call the features what you will. Just go find one to drive and you'll see.

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Bob

08-04-2002 05:05:25




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 Re: Re: More Clarification Needed - Live Hydraulics - Independent PTO in reply to Phil (VA), 08-01-2002 11:54:04  
Thanks Phil, and thanks for your answer on my earlier post as well. You are correct but it was me who didn't really have enough information and was making assumptions that the PTO selector on a 35 would disengage the hydraulics like it does on my 2085. Since that light came on for me, all of the information provided by you and the others makes great sense. Think I'll explore the "Live Thang" option as 35's in this area seem to be rare and, according to one person I spoke with, will go from $5 -7K Cdn if they are in any kind of condition at all.

Thanks again
Cheers.
Bob

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Big Dean

08-01-2002 11:10:21




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 Re: More Clarification Needed - Live Hydraulics - Independent PTO in reply to Douro Bob, 08-01-2002 09:58:04  
Let me see if I can help you here What Massey Ferguson has is the two stage clutch that when you push the clutch pedal about half way the Transmission disengages stopping the tractor. The PTO continues to turn & the Hydraulics continues to work till the pedal is pushed all the way down. This is called live PTO or live power. It is in my opinion actually Simi live power but works good. The 100 series have what is called independent PTO it is engaged by hydraulic clutch pack in the rear housing of the tractor it has a pump mounted piggyback on top the three point pump for it's hydraulics. The PTO in put shaft on these engage into a hub on the pressure plate for the transmission as long a the engine is running the three point will work even with the clutch disengaged. This to me is true live power. Almost everything Massey built after 1964 had a dual clutch from the MF35 through the MF65. Some of the TO35 F40 MH50 & MF50 built before that had the dual clutch with live power. All of the 100 series had either a dual clutch or independent PTO with the exception of a few MF135 specials. The Independent PTO is most common on the MF165 & up but is used on some MF135s & MF150s Hope this helps If I can be of further assistance Email me

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Douro Bob

08-01-2002 11:42:21




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 Re: Re: More Clarification Needed - Live Hydraulics - Independent PTO in reply to Big Dean , 08-01-2002 11:10:21  
So Big Dean, what I think you are saying is that a TO 35 does NOT have independent PTO but rather has live power which would mean that when the PTO is disengaged by depressing the clutch all the way that the 3ph hydraulics are also disengaged and I can not raise an implement at that time. I think this also means that, in order to raise a bush hog for example, the PTO will be engaged (unless of course, I disconnect the PTO shaft).

Thanks again
DouroBob

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Dig Dean

08-01-2002 16:02:51




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 Re: Re: Re: More Clarification Needed - Live Hydraulics - Independent PTO in reply to Douro Bob, 08-01-2002 11:42:21  
That is Right the TO35 does not have Independent PTO. The PTO on them & the pump both stop turning when the clutch is push all the way down. The PTO is turned by the tail shaft of the three point pump & is connected with a sliding collar. When you pull the PTO lever into engine speed the collar has splines inside. It slides up onto the pump shaft & connects the Pump & PTO shafts together. All TO35s do not Have Live Power

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Douro Bob

08-02-2002 04:59:12




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: More Clarification Needed - Live Hydraulics - Independent PTO in reply to Dig Dean, 08-01-2002 16:02:51  
For a non-mechanic I think I am actually beginning to understand. I think what was confusing me is the fact that on my little Ferguson 2085 when you use the lever to the left under the seat to shut off the PTO you also shut off the hydraulics. If I understand you correctly, on the TO 35 you can use the lever to shut off the PTO but that does not shut off the hydraulics for the 3ph.

Is my focus getting a little sharper?

Thanks Dean
DouroBob

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Big Dean

08-02-2002 07:14:11




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: More Clarification Needed - Live Hydraulics - Independent PTO in reply to Douro Bob, 08-02-2002 04:59:12  
You Got it the 2085 the sliding collar on them is between the three point pump & the transmission. When you disengage it you also disengage the hydraulic pump. the TO 35 & everything after the three point pump is coupled direct to the transmission makes a big difference



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DouroBob

08-02-2002 08:22:55




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: More Clarification Needed - Live Hydraulics - Independent PTO in reply to Big Dean, 08-02-2002 07:14:11  
Thanks for sharing your knowledge so readily Dean. I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on the "Live Thang" that Zane Sherman has developed. Lots of discussion about it over on the Ford board and he says it will work on the Ferguson's as well. Sounds like a lot less expensive way to get live hydraulics than trying to find a TO 35 or a MF 35 in good shape.

Cheers Bob



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RHS

08-01-2002 10:56:02




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 Re: More Clarification Needed - Live Hydraulics - Independent PTO in reply to Douro Bob, 08-01-2002 09:58:04  
Bob,

I can give you a partial response. A TO-35 Deluxe will do all of 1), 2), and 3), i.e. answer is "yes".



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