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How Much Of A Slope Until Uh-Oh!???

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Richie Magoo

07-02-2002 17:22:18

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Hey Guys!

O-K....there have been posts on here in the past about mowing slopes.....but still no good definitive answers. I'm new to tractors.....and after hearing so much about their propensity to tip over, I get panicky every time my tractor isnt on perfectly level ground.

how can you tell how much of a sideways tilt a tractor can take, and still be safe? I'm not talking about pushing things to the limit..... but isnt there some way I can know if I'm still far from any danger? I've heard all the theory about centers of gravity and all, and have seen the pertinent websites, but how does that translate to my tractor and my slopes/ruts/rough areas? I want to be safe....but at the same time, I dont want to worry for nothing and avoid areas that I could probably safely drive over.

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Joe in NY

07-03-2002 14:49:45

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Re: How Much Of A Slope Until Uh-Oh!??? in reply to Richie Magoo, 07-02-2002 17:22:18

Richie, If you're nervous you're tipped to far!!
Have fun on that tractor but remember they ain't toys and they can and will bite you if you let'm.
Who cares what the next guy does? I will tell you I lost a good friend and an experianced tractorman last summer because of what you're talking about. 1st year of retirment and he rolled it when he was alone. Family was away and found him 3 days later. Hopefully he went instantly.
I think of him often. If it can happen to him it can happen to anyone. BE CAREFUL PLEASE!!!
Joe

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Richie Magoo

07-03-2002 16:16:34

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Re: Re: How Much Of A Slope Until Uh-Oh!??? in reply to Joe in NY, 07-03-2002 14:49:45

PS: A word of advice to anyone who may follow suit: Determine BEFORE you take your wheels off if they have calcium in them! I just learned this the hard way. All went well though (even though nobody was around to help).....I got lucky!

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Richie Magoo

07-03-2002 16:04:13

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Re: Re: How Much Of A Slope Until Uh-Oh!??? in reply to Joe in NY, 07-03-2002 14:49:45

Sorry to hear about your friend :(

I just got done setting my tires to a wider stance. I took her for a test drive.....I feel much better now. The tractor seems much more stable. It may look a little retarded with the dishes in the concave position, and the brake drums exposed and the wheels sticking way out....but who cares?! Only problem is: Now it doesnt stop as good! Guess I'll have to do brakes!

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Jone

07-03-2002 13:18:25

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Re: How Much Of A Slope Until Uh-Oh!??? in reply to Richie Magoo, 07-02-2002 17:22:18

Hi all
I almost tipped my TEA over today, it was while I was driving Horse Manure out to a tipp, i came too close too the soft edge, and it skidded out....., the tractor died out in an 45 degree angle, and i almost fell out of the seat....
I had to use a Chain Block to get it out.....

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Fred OH

07-03-2002 08:27:20

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Re: How Much Of A Slope Until Uh-Oh!??? in reply to Richie Magoo, 07-02-2002 17:22:18

I have a ditch out next to the road that I normally mow with a push mower but as of recently used the TO-20 and Woods 5'finish mower. I just measured it with an angle gage as best I could and it appears to be about 26 degrees off the horizontal. I mowed in low gear and leaned toward the uphill side as I went and was ready to jump off at the slightest indication of tipping. It gets steeper at the other end (just a little)and the front wheels (4X19) just slip to the bottom of the ditch with no indication of tipping. The next time I mow it, I'm gonna mow part of it and stop and get off and see how light the uphill rear wheel is getting. If I can't lift it slightly, I'll keep mowing it. The other side of the ditch is so that the tractor cannot roll, just flip over on it's side or top. After mowing about 20 or 25 feet the tractor starts missing from the float in the carb being in a position that it shuts off the gas (I assume). I can tell as an experienced tractor driver that it is too dangerous at 26 degrees. I wonder if the oil pump is getting oil too. L8R....Fred OH (maybe)

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Richie Magoo

07-03-2002 09:04:43

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Re: Re: How Much Of A Slope Until Uh-Oh!??? in reply to Fred OH, 07-03-2002 08:27:20

Thanks Fred! That was a great post! I'm gonna go out later with my angle meter and see what exactly constitutes a 26 degree slope on my property! We think alike! Once when I had the tractor leaning, in what felt like a gettimg-near-dangerous angle, I got off, and tried to see if I could budge tjhe high side at all. (I dismounted from the high side, too!) You validated what my neighbor once told me: "It'll slip before it'll tip." BTW: How wide do you have your wheels set? (My Fergie is currently set narrow....but I'm gonna set the rear wheels at the 72 inch setting SOON!)

Rich

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Fred OH

07-04-2002 09:01:09

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Re: Re: Re: How Much Of A Slope Until Uh-Oh!??? in reply to Richie Magoo, 07-03-2002 09:04:43

Richie, The wheels on my TO-20 are set in as narrow as possible or in the standard position. The downhill side has fluid in it, the uphill side sprung a leak and I had to empty it and put in a new tube. I left the fluid in the downhill side because the tread on that side is about half worn out, the other side is new. That makes them somewhat equal. No wheel weights, just me. BTW, when you go to setting the wheels out, the carriage bolts that bolt the rim to the hub are a bi**h to get out if they been in there for 50 odd years. Takes a sledge, a big 'un...just loosen up the nuts and rap on them, not the bolt threads. Last one I did was on a 9N and it was tough. BTW again, you can make a incline-ometer with a piece of clear tubing (plugged on both ends)with some antifreeze in it mounted on the dash in a radius or arc. Wouldn't need to be graduated in degrees, just go till you feel it is getting unsafe and mark where the bubble is and don't go beyond it in the future. Thats Ohio and Kentucky engineering, maybe some of those California fellows will design a ejector seat and obsolete our method. (How bout it Chuck?) L8R....Fred OH

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Roger

07-08-2002 12:22:12

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Re: Re: Re: Re: How Much Of A Slope Until Uh-Oh!??? in reply to Fred OH, 07-04-2002 09:01:09

Fred;
Why not put water in the tube?
RogeR

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Fred OH

07-09-2002 03:00:46

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How Much Of A Slope Until Uh-Oh!??? in reply to Roger, 07-08-2002 12:22:12

Roger, The Ohio winters will prevent you from putting plain water in for weight, You'd just have to remove it or put in antifreeze later. I"ll probably just remove the fluid from the other wheel as I don't really need it. The wheels were loaded when I got the tractor. Fred OH

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Richie Magoo

07-04-2002 09:49:26

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Re: Re: Re: Re: How Much Of A Slope Until Uh-Oh!??? in reply to Fred OH, 07-04-2002 09:01:09

Luckily, I didn't have to do the carriage bolts! I just turned the wheels around, and put them on oppossite sides....and now they're in the next-to-widest position. So the tire with the calcium should be on the downhill side? I had thought it eas the oppossite....guess I was wrong! Guess you Ohioans are just more advanced than us Kentuckyites! Why, you're probably working on the theory of tractor relativity right now! (Lets see.....TO-20 =8N squared, if JD x AC = the square root of IH, then MM must be the co-efficient of the radius of an Irish Potato....) :)

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Fred OH

07-05-2002 02:52:15

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How Much Of A Slope Until Uh-Oh!??? in reply to Richie Magoo, 07-04-2002 09:49:26

The filled tire should have been on the uphill side....I was just telling how it really was. Wouldn't want to steer anybody wrong...especially on a hillside. ;>{ L8R....Fred OH

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Richie Magoo

07-05-2002 08:31:45

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How Much Of A Slope Until Uh-Oh!??? in reply to Fred OH, 07-05-2002 02:52:15

Ah, so my theory was correct!

Rich (The Tractor Philosopher)

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jim

07-02-2002 17:35:56

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Re: How Much Of A Slope Until Uh-Oh!??? in reply to Richie Magoo, 07-02-2002 17:22:18

Can not answer your question, but have you noticed how steep some on the state highway roadsides are, some are very steep, and I was just thinking today of those state guys mowing roadsides and how often we DO NOT hear of their Tractors tiping over. I am sure they have tipped over.

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Mark Hendershot

07-02-2002 21:15:23

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Re: Re: How Much Of A Slope Until Uh-Oh!??? in reply to jim, 07-02-2002 17:35:56

A lot of those tractors have counter weights on one side to help. Mark H.

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Richie Magoo

07-02-2002 18:02:32

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Re: Re: How Much Of A Slope Until Uh-Oh!??? in reply to jim, 07-02-2002 17:35:56

Hey, Jim!

Yeah....I'm envious of those DOT mowers! But they can take the risk, they have ROPS....I'd mow vertical walls if I had ROPS and a seatbelt!

My neighbor used to drive a big tractor to mow the electric company right-of-ways. It was all caged in, with steel grating....good thing, 'cause he rolled it! (no damage to machine or operator).....this same guy drives his personal tractor sideways across my worst slopes (the ones that took me some getting used to, just to go up and down them!) I mean darn! They're like on a 45 degree angle. He has ROPS...but doesnt wear his seatbelt. Maybe I'll make him drive my tractor across my slopes....if it doesnt tip....I'll do it! If it does tip....I'm out one tractor and one nice neighbor. But I'm probably worried for nothing when I'm on even a gentle slope, and think it's gonna tip. I know....if any of you guys have pictures of yourselves driving across slopes.....

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Frank (VA)

07-02-2002 19:48:37

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Re: Re: Re: How Much Of A Slope Until Uh-Oh!??? in reply to Richie Magoo, 07-02-2002 18:02:32

I was looking at the side of my kid's car seat. It has a little plastic , crecent shaped tube with a little bearing in it.Along the length of the tube is a green colour for when the seat is at an acceptable angle and a red colur when it is tipped over too far.

They aught to have one for a tractor with a mercury switch so that when you are tipped over too far it cuts off the ignition.

I put a roll bar and seat belt on my otherwise totally stock 1950 TO-20. It spoiled the looks, but guess I can live with that.
Frank

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Richie Magoo

07-02-2002 20:20:24

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Re: Re: Re: Re: How Much Of A Slope Until Uh-Oh!??? in reply to Frank (VA), 07-02-2002 19:48:37

An incline-o-meter. Now if you could just adapt it to various tractor models- and make it adjustable to work with different wheel spacings, you'd have something I'd buy!

I have a feeling I'll end up having a roll bar made one day! Where did you mount yours? (and the seat-belt?)

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Mark Hendershot

07-02-2002 21:12:54

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How Much Of A Slope Until Uh-Oh!??? in reply to Richie Magoo, 07-02-2002 20:20:24

I thought about mounting one on my TO-30 once. I figured I could use the fender mount on the Trumpets then make a bracket that bolted to the rear case and front case seam mounting bolts below the seat area to make a cross brace with so it would not fold. The seat belt would bolt to a steel mount between the rear role bar. Then I figured I would need a different type of seat with lumbar protection to keep me from sliding out of it. After that I started seeing how hard it would be to get in and out and changed my mind about building one. I just desided to keep it out of posisions it would tip over in. Tipping over can happen or not happen on the same angle depending on your load, tire grip or speed along with up bumps, braking and giving it the gas. Your better not to figure it will not tip if the gauge said 30 degs and I know I can go to 32 degs so I am safe. It don't work that way. All conditions make a differents in a role over. After you tip a little or get light on one side or another you will learn fast never to get your tractor in a tight spot again. Just play safe and watch out. You could still get killed straped in upside down with a peice of steel or stick stuck in you. Mark H.

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Richie Magoo

07-02-2002 21:49:57

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How Much Of A Slope Until Uh-Oh!??? in reply to Mark Hendershot, 07-02-2002 21:12:54

The song "Slip Slidin' Away" comes to mind. Yeah...the logistics of a roll bar have made me leary of the idea too. (That's why I cant stand it when these li'l tractors have loaders too- taking 15 minutes to mount your tractor is no fun!)

My problem is: I think I worry about tipping, when I'm not in a bad situation. When I first got the tractor, I went over a rough area where one rear tire went over a rut, so that one tire was about a foot higher than the other..... I doubt that that was a dangerous situation....but when I felt the tractor leaning, I thought I was gonna die!

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H. T. Hertz

07-03-2002 01:53:37

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How Much Of A Slope Until Uh-Oh!??? in reply to Richie Magoo, 07-02-2002 21:49:57

Calculate your center of gravity by means of the drawing in the instruction manual and apply actual loading. If the resultant vector stays between the wheels you are safe, if not - uh-oh!

Henning

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Richie Magoo

07-03-2002 08:56:14

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How Much Of A Slope Until Uh-Oh!??? in reply to H. T. Hertz, 07-03-2002 01:53:37

I may just do that! I'll experiment with different angles of slope- at least it'll give me a rough idea. Unfortuneately though, theory often loses something between the paper and the real world! (Einstien- of all people- beleived time travel was possible! Absurd!)

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H. T. Hertz

07-04-2002 15:57:30

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How Much Of A Slope Until Uh-Oh!??? in reply to Richie Magoo, 07-03-2002 08:56:14

hey! time travelling IS possible

- sure as h*** takes enough of my time travelling

- see?

When a 35'er (gas) is ready for use, no ROPS and implements, the center of gravity is 117mm directly below the main gear shift lever according to my drawings. Imagine a pendulum hanging from that point - just keep it inside the square which the wheels make on the ground.
When you load the tractor you must calculate the mass and momentum applied to get the new C of G. Normally it moves upward and to the rear. Then it is a question of lowering the C of G or increasing square width. Elementary, dear Watson...

Henning

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Richie Magoo

07-04-2002 16:09:45

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How Much Of A Slope Until Uh-Oh!??? in reply to H. T. Hertz, 07-04-2002 15:57:30

I tried installing a pendulum on my dash....but the darn thing hypnotized me! (j/k)

O-K...that is a very good practical application of thie center of gravity thingie. This gives me something to work with.

Luckily, my main task with the tractor for the time being is bush-hoggin' and that lowers my center of gravy...errr...uhhh....gravity.

I measured my worst slopes....they're only 20 degrees(+/-)....much less than I had imagined. And after hearing of Freds exploits with 26 degrees.....I should be fine if I take it slow and watch it!(?)

Thanks for the info!

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