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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Live hydraulics for H

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Tomac

03-15-2008 03:48:46




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I have a 47 H which my father-in-law purchased new, I use it with my 656D the only problem the old belly pump just won't lift the hydraulic cylinder on the planter or potato digger, I want to put live hydraulics on and have not been able to find a m&w pump. There is one here at YT says "Hydraulic Pump M&W gear for Farmall H $701.66 mw90646" is this a new live pump there is no picture. Also there is a behlen 201 live power steering pump on ebay. These behlen pumps are rated at 3.1 gpm and 1000 psi this is more than the original belly pump I do not want a bucket but just be able to use a remote cylinder on the planter and digger and maybe the old disc plow.. Any info on either of these pumps or other solutions would greatly be appreciated

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460anger

03-16-2008 05:56:43




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 Re: Live hydraulics for H in reply to Tomac, 03-15-2008 03:48:46  
You guys are missing something that I just can not believe. The early H's had a maximum pressure of 450 to 500 psi. Later pumps had a maximum of 750 to 800 psi. The later pumps had a yellow 8 painted on the outside of the reservoir. I put one of these in the H I have. Picks up my John Deere 7000 4row corn planter loaded with no problem. Not sure what year they made the change. Sure somebody on here does.

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Gary,kansas

03-15-2008 12:04:49




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 Re: Live hydraulics for H in reply to Tomac, 03-15-2008 03:48:46  
Dad had, I think a 48 H, we put a pump ahead of the dist. I think it was a 300 pump coupled it with a dual valve system. We also used the H reservoir by using an elbow and 10 inch piece of pipe with a cap with a vent in the top to let pressure out that is created by the new pump. This pipe was installed in the filler hole. This set up would lift anything we ever wanted without an outside oil tank. After dads death the 3 of us descendants each got a tractor, my sister has the H up in Iowa so it is possible to get pictures. It's worked since 1963 and has been pushing snow all winter.

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wh

03-15-2008 09:28:16




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 Re: Live hydraulics for H in reply to Tomac, 03-15-2008 03:48:46  
live hyd is the cat's meow. if you got the money it can be done to look factory. link will show the set-up i use. had to get a front cover for a 300 for pump to fit. got the pump/cover from bates corp in bourbon,IN. did it several years ago and cost close to $850 to do it then. the pump was new. scroll thru the pics to see the pump, external 7 gal hyd tank, and 3 pt set-up. already had the 3pt on it when i put the live system on. i figure it made a $10,000 tractor out of a $2,000 one - not that i could sell it for that - just made it a whole lot handier!!

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Dan Bear Kelley

03-15-2008 08:25:39




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 Re: Live hydraulics for H in reply to Tomac, 03-15-2008 03:48:46  
Hey Steven f/AZ, could you please give us more information on replacing the belly pump with the PTO-like pump? I've got a PTO pump on my M for my loader, which means only part-time hydraulics and no PTO equipment. I like the cardian joint (double u-joint) and I like the thought of using the belly-pump space. Did the new pump get covered by something to protect that area from dust? I have too many questions to ask them all. Maybe someone out there could put together a kit to make this kind of conversion more common. This is really a cool idea!

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Steven f/AZ

03-15-2008 10:08:45




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 Re: Live hydraulics for H in reply to Dan Bear Kelley, 03-15-2008 08:25:39  

Dan Bear Kelley said: (quoted from post at 08:25:39 03/15/08) Hey Steven f/AZ, could you please give us more information on replacing the belly pump with the PTO-like pump? This is really a cool idea!


I agree that it is a cool idea and I thought about it before going with my belt-drive live system.

Sorry I don't have any information on how to set it up, just that picture.

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rustyfarmall

03-15-2008 07:05:45




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 Re: Live hydraulics for H in reply to Tomac, 03-15-2008 03:48:46  
Drop that belly pump, open it up and have a look. There is something wrong in there. I have planted corn with an H and a John Deere 494 4 row planter set up with dry fertilizer hoppers, dry herbicide boxes, and dry pesticide boxes. Fully loaded, that planter weighed a bunch, and the H never had a problem lifting it.



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gots-2-go

03-15-2008 07:04:39




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 Re: Live hydraulics for H in reply to Tomac, 03-15-2008 03:48:46  
The M&W pump for an H is a great unit if it WORKS, BUT remember that company stopped making these pumps years ago.

Very few new parts are available for them. A company called Hi-Low can sometimes rebuild them to new specs, but that adds more cost to the final installing fees.

If the pump you said that is listed on this site is a new one, it must have been in storage for quite a few years. Contact the seller and ask him/her to provide a picture of it and any additional info about it's "new" condition.

M&W did make a live pump for both the H & M, but they are limited to working on the model that they were made for. If the pump was designed for a M it will not bolt up to a H or vise-versa.

The M&W pumps for a M are much easier to find, than one for a H. If and when you do find one for an H it always sells for a LOT more than one for an M does.

The Behlen #201 may work, but it was designed as a source for supplying hydraulics to a Power Steering unit. The Behlen manual list it's specs as: 3.25gpm output @ 1000psi. They usually bring a high dollar as well when one does come up for sale.

Your best and most reliable route to take for installing live hyds on your H may be to get a live pump, front cover, & backing plate from a Super H or 300 and install them on your tractor. Some people also advise to use the cam gear from a Super H too, they say it is a heavier made gear than the orginal one on a H. One good source for these parts is Mike at Steel Wheel Ranch, or check your local salvage yards.

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Allan In NE

03-15-2008 05:55:35




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 Re: Live hydraulics for H in reply to Tomac, 03-15-2008 03:48:46  
Tom,

I'd sure stay with IH stuff so that you can readily find parts.

That one is gonna be a chore because you have to swap out that front timing gear/cover.

Bad part is that it is gonna cost. Been there and done that a couple of times. :>(

Allan



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TomH in PA

03-15-2008 05:24:41




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 Re: Live hydraulics for H in reply to Tomac, 03-15-2008 03:48:46  
I agree with jimmyjoe. An H can operate a loader with the belly pump, all you need is a bigger cylinder.



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Charlie M

03-15-2008 05:21:29




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 Re: Live hydraulics for H in reply to Tomac, 03-15-2008 03:48:46  
I'm surprised anything you can pull with an H that you can't lift it with the belly pump. Does it have enough oil and the right kind of oil. Lots of people want to put hydraulic oil into a belly pump they were designed to run on 30 wt non detergent oil. A dealer once told me to go to 40wt on my M.You may want to put a gauge on your current system and see what it's doing before spending a lot of money on a live system.

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jimmyjoe inMN

03-15-2008 05:09:34




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 Re: Live hydraulics for H in reply to Tomac, 03-15-2008 03:48:46  
Or just put a bigger diameter cylinder on .



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Steven f/AZ

03-15-2008 05:00:59




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 Re: Live hydraulics for H in reply to Tomac, 03-15-2008 03:48:46  
You can get a long shaft that goes through the pump to run an implement.



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Steven f/AZ

03-15-2008 04:04:41




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 Re: Live hydraulics for H in reply to Tomac, 03-15-2008 03:48:46  
If you're not concerned about it being a live pump, you can get by much cheaper with a PTO pump...

third party image

Or you can use the same type pump and get creative with how to power it so you don't tie up the rear PTO shaft, this one is mounted where the belly pump was...

third party image

Or you can run a similar pump off the belt pulley drive, just have to make a coupler and mount for it.

Beyond that, there are several options for live hydraulics that can be driven from the distributor, a cogged belt, chain, shaft, or v-belt from the crankshaft as well. A v-belt driven pump may or may not generate enough pressure, depending on the GPM you need... I'm tempted to try one of the 2-stage log splitter pumps on my next set up.

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Tomac

03-15-2008 04:16:38




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 Re: Live hydraulics for H in reply to Steven f/AZ, 03-15-2008 04:04:41  
The only problem with the pto would be with the potato digger I need the pto



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RossIL

03-15-2008 11:14:48




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 Re: Live hydraulics for H in reply to Tomac, 03-15-2008 04:16:38  
Usually you can put an adapter on the PTO pump that allows the pto to still be used at the same time as the pump. I'd run a pto style pump off the belt pulley if it were me.
Ross



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Dan Bear Kelley

03-16-2008 11:34:20




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 PTO Extension, Belt Pulley Hydraulics and Live Hydraulics in reply to RossIL, 03-15-2008 11:14:48  
I've seen those PTO extensions, but I was pretty leery about them. Put on one of those extensions, then the pump, then an overrunning clutch... Before you know it, the whole thing feels like a Pink Panther cartoon, where he is nailing one board to another to make it across a canyon.

I've thought about getting a gizmo welded up to put a piece of PTO shaft on a plate that bolts to the Belt Pulley Drive, and then hanging my hydraulic pump off that. It does not give me live hydraulics, but it would free up my PTO for a sickle bar mower or whatever.

I'd rather go with live hydraulics, and I think my 1951 is after the SN where they changed the bolt connections on the front cover. I think a SM hydraulic pump will bolt up.

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