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Oil and Water DO Mix

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Mr. Dan

09-04-2007 09:13:52




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I haven't asked a question about my '48 Super A in 3 years... life is good!

Other forum entries lead me to believe it's not uncommon for a Super A (and other) gearbox to contain some amount of invasive water. My Super A produces a fountain of oil/water milkshake through the gear shift tower after 5-10 minutes of light travel. I see two holes in the top surface of the gearbox behind the 8-bolt shift lever plate and in front of the PTO join. These two holes appear to be "plugged" with cork stoppers... painted red in the previous owner's partial restoration. At least one of these plugs appears to be porous enough to permit rain water into the gear box.

What is the real purpose of these two holes?

How should they be filled?

Do/Should I have some sort of vent system other than these two holes?

What am I not asking that I should be?

Thanks in advance for your time and attention. You guys/gals have helped me in the past. Even when I haven't posted questions, I have found helpful answers to my tractor problems.

The kids call me...

Mr. Dan

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Doc Larry

09-12-2007 05:31:53




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 Re: Oil and Water DO Mix in reply to Mr. Dan, 09-04-2007 09:13:52  
Dan,

A little "sludge" is normal. This is non-detergent lubricant, so contaminants should fall to the bottom of the case, and basically stay there.
But sounds like you're getting most of the water out, which is a good thing.
Larry



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Mr. Dan

09-11-2007 18:00:58




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 Re: Oil and Water DO Mix in reply to Mr. Dan, 09-04-2007 09:13:52  
Well, I got 'er dun... first cycle of draining and filling, at least. I don't see how there could be any sludge in that tranny considering how much tan oil mix I got out! It's obvious the previous owner and I were clueless about using the "level plug" to know when to stop "topping it off". I have a PTO job to do tomorrow then I'll check the level and the condition of the lube and see how it goes.

Thanks for all your help.

Dan

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Mr. Dan

09-05-2007 10:15:20




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 Re: Oil and Water DO Mix in reply to Mr. Dan, 09-04-2007 09:13:52  
Just for fun... I'll attempt to post a photo of the Super A in question.

third party image

Dan



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Doc Larry

09-04-2007 17:45:30




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 Re: Oil and Water DO Mix in reply to Mr. Dan, 09-04-2007 09:13:52  
You really do want to get the water out ASAP because water will collect between the bearing balls or rollers and the seats, and leave small rust pits that can eventually take out your bearings. I think I would drain completely, refill, run till it is good and hot, then drain and refill again. You aren't going to get any sludge out, but you'll get most of the water out.
Larry



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Mr. Dan

09-04-2007 15:32:08




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 Re: Oil and Water DO Mix in reply to Mr. Dan, 09-04-2007 09:13:52  
Thanks, folks. I'm definitely ahead of my position yesterday.
Keeping the Super A in is out for the time being. After finishing the house, we're out of energy and $$$ for a tractor shed. Maybe I'll use an antique galvanized bathtub for cover.

Your facts are validated including the threaded holes to nowhere. I found the main drain plug (a 1 1/4 inch inside square drive plug - same as the two on top of the gearbox) and the belt pulley/PTO really small square-head drain plug plus the level plug (larger than the belt pulley/PTO drain plug).

The huge surprise for this old-guy novice-at-maintaining-a-vintage-tractor was how low the level plug is. This means I am my own worst enemy since I "topped off" this gearbox several months ago -- assuming a "gob of gear oil is worth a pound of cure".

I'll start the drain/refill to level plug operation in a few days so I can put the old tractor back to work mowing the weeds in the back lot. {Still, I must have new fluid (water) entering the mix since the milkshake didn't start overflowing when I topped it off - but waited several months - and now overflows every time I use it which means it can't get rid of enough to stop spouting.}

Thanks again,

Dan

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ScottyHOMEy

09-04-2007 19:19:05




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 Re: Oil and Water DO Mix in reply to Mr. Dan, 09-04-2007 15:32:08  
You're right, Dan, that drain plug is low. To make sure you get enough ggod new lube in on the refill, get your tractor on the closest thing to level ground you can find.



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ScottyHOMEy

09-04-2007 11:29:25




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 Re: Oil and Water DO Mix in reply to Mr. Dan, 09-04-2007 09:13:52  
Those two holes have bottoms and don't open into the tranny.

Sounds like you're over-full with sludge and/or water in there. The main drain is on the side of your tranny, at the right rear corner, behind the differential housing. If you have a belt pulley/PTO there is also a small square-head drain just above and to the right of the PTO shaft that should be drained, too.

I'd recommend draining first. Then open up the level plug (another square head at the left front corner of the tranny, on the side and probably partially blocked by your brake rod).REPLACE YOUR DRAIN PLUGS and refill the tranny thorugh the plug to the left of your shifter until you get oil running from the level hole. Shold be 4-1/2 or 5 quarts, depending on which IH pub you read. If you have the pulley/PTO fill that up, too. Should take another half quart or so befoe that starts running out the same level plug. IF all this uses significantly less oil than recommended to fill back up, there's a good chance you've got significant sludge going in there, too.

If that's the case the choices are to run it as is and change it our more frequently and hope the newer oil will loosen up and suspend the sludge. If it were mine, I'd drain a quart or so of the new oil out and top it off with kerosene, and run that a while before changing it out. Worst case is open up the top of the tranny and scoop out all you can.

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Janicholson

09-04-2007 10:37:38




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 Re: Oil and Water DO Mix in reply to Mr. Dan, 09-04-2007 09:13:52  
I respectfully caution on the tarp routine. It can be very good where the humidity is low. Tyvek, or other permiable material would be OK but in some climates the tarp allows (encourages) sweating of condensed moisture on and in machines.
Those holes may have had cork from the factory (probable). Stick a needle down in the center, and they are blind (unless someone put a long screw in the hole and broke out the bottom) JimN

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Nat 2

09-04-2007 09:56:57




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 Re: Oil and Water DO Mix in reply to Mr. Dan, 09-04-2007 09:13:52  
Actually, if you simply change the fluid now, and keep the tractor under cover when it's not being used from here on out, you will eliminate 99.999% of water infiltration. If you don't have a shed to keep the tractor in, a quality canvas tarp will do wonders.

The holes you are talking about are probably for mounting some piece of equipment. They probably don't even go into the transmission case. If you pull the corks, you'll probably discover that they're threaded.

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