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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Ways to pull sleeves without taking the crank out?

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Jonfarmer

12-11-2006 08:52:08




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I got a Farmall H motor me and dad are rebuilding this winter. We got a piston, ring and sleeve kit for it, but we don't have a way to pull the sleeves ourselves and the local Agco dealer will pull the sleeves for us, but we would have to take the crank out for him which is alot more tearing apart than we would like to do. Is there a way to pull the sleeves out of a block without taking the crank out?. Thanks in advance,

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gene bender

12-11-2006 18:08:56




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 Re: Ways to pull sleeves without taking the crank in reply to Jonfarmer, 12-11-2006 08:52:08  
Using a sleeve puller doesent require the crank to be removed.



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r4etired

12-11-2006 18:03:29




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 Re: Ways to pull sleeves without taking the crank in reply to Jonfarmer, 12-11-2006 08:52:08  
An elderly IH mechanic told me 30 years ago that you can check the condition of the mains by the way it vibrates the drawbar pin at 1000 rpm. true or not, but I have 3 M's. one will really vibrate the pin, the ones I rebuilt hardly shake it.



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Carp

12-11-2006 18:25:39




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 Re: Ways to pull sleeves without taking the crank in reply to r4etired, 12-11-2006 18:03:29  
My Dad's WD45 has bad mains in it and has had for several years. You can not hear it when the tractor isn't under load and you can just barely hear it under heavy load, but if you stand on the platform behind the seat you can feel it. It feels like someone gently tapping underneath your foot with a rubber hammer.

We know it is the mains for 2 reasons. 1) when you point it down hill the oil pressure drops. 2) When we bought it all the mains were out. Dad plasigaged it and put in 2 under mains. In a WD45 you can change all the main bearings with the crank in except the upper half of the thrust bearing. Dad did not want to pull the engine just to replace it (yes we know that is bad and throws the crank out of alignment an all that jazz but it didn't gage all that bad). I would say that was done in about 1985. That was our main raking and square baling tractor until about 1998 when I got my first IH. It still gets used some, but probably not 50 hrs a year.

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Carp

12-11-2006 15:12:44




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 Re: Ways to pull sleeves without taking the crank in reply to Jonfarmer, 12-11-2006 08:52:08  
I have some spare time, so I will throw out a differing opinion.

First it is easy to pull the sleeves on this engine without removing the crank or removing the engine from the tractor for that matter. You can either weld a bead as stated below or you can use a sleeve puller. There are other ways as well that I would not recomend.

Secondly, I disagree with the automatic answers of pull the crank or you will be sorry later. You can check the clearance on the bearings without pulling the crank by using plasigage.

Also, if you have been running the tractor prior to being torn down it is easy to know if you need main bearings and crank work. 1) What was the oil pressure? If it is good when the engine was up to temp then the clearances on the main bearings is OK. 2) Point the tractor severly down hill (nose down). If the oil pressure drops, the thrust bearing (one of the main bearings) is bad. 3)Listen for a main bearing knock. In my experience it will be a very low soft thump, thump, thump. You will actually most likely feel it before you hear it. If all else fails, plastigage it, but if the above 3 check ok, then you don't have any problem.

Trust me when I say that a main bearing is not something that goes out fast like a rod bearing. It is something that happens over time unless you have a failure somewhere else like an oil pump. Even then the rods generally go out before the mains.

I have been around a lot of old farmalls from the 40's and 50's and have rebuilt several. I have never replaced the main bearings or pulled the crank on any of them. That is why they make inframe overhaul kits. And as far as turning the crank for the rod journals, that is what .004" under rod bearins are for.

In case you are wondering, my tractors are working tractors that get 100 to 200 hrs a year and quite a bit of hard pulling. It might be important for some people to say that I did this and that to a tractor and it is absolutely perfect, but most times at the end of the day it will not make a lick of difference. You can tell me otherwise, but I know better.

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El Toro

12-11-2006 09:56:17




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 Re: Ways to pull sleeves without taking the crank in reply to Jonfarmer, 12-11-2006 08:52:08  
You will better off to pull the crankshaft as others have suggested. Your cam bearings probably need to be replaced too. The crankshaft should at least be polished if it's still within specs. Your auto machine shop can get new bearings too. Even if's only worn a few thousands
you can use .001" or .002" undersize inserts. Hal



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Ken L.

12-11-2006 09:23:34




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 Re: Ways to pull sleeves without taking the crank in reply to Jonfarmer, 12-11-2006 08:52:08  
I agree with Rustyfamall. I have overhauled many tractors of most brands and have yet to find one crank that was within specs. Pull the crank and have it checked. Do it right and it will last longer. I know of guys who tried to do the overhaul cheaper by not getting the crank done and then some spun a bearing or two. If that happens, it will really get expensive.



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Ken B

12-11-2006 09:13:09




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 Re: Ways to pull sleeves without taking the crank in reply to Jonfarmer, 12-11-2006 08:52:08  
You will need a sleeve puller you can leave the motor in the tractor. But if you already have it out I would pull the crank and replace bearings and main seals.



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Jonfarmer

12-11-2006 09:59:00




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 Re: Ways to pull sleeves without taking the crank in reply to Ken B, 12-11-2006 09:13:09  
The motor is sitting in the back of my dads pickup truck right now as we thought we were going to run it right down to the Agco dealer this morning, but I called and asked about the crank still be in it and was told to remove it. It looks like it will be getting pulled after all. One of my neighbors owns a machine shop, so I might have him check the crank over. Awful temping to cut corners though.

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El Toro

12-11-2006 13:10:18




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 Re: Ways to pull sleeves without taking the crank in reply to Jonfarmer, 12-11-2006 09:59:00  
You will kick yourself twice if you try to cut corners. If you have to pull that engine apart again. Hal



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RustyFarmall

12-11-2006 09:05:22




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 Re: Ways to pull sleeves without taking the crank in reply to Jonfarmer, 12-11-2006 08:52:08  
You really do need to remove the crankshaft and have it checked out and measured by a machinist. Even if the crank checks out to be good, it is still a good idea to replace the main bearings. You can't do that with the crank still in the tractor.



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Lunatic Fringe

12-12-2006 11:23:46




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 Re: Ways to pull sleeves without taking the crank in reply to RustyFarmall, 12-11-2006 09:05:22  
Rusty,

It is possible to change the main bearings without removing the crank. I did that on the first engine I did an rebuild on. That was on an M, maybe an H is different. On my H, I had a non-running tractor with a cracked block so I had to tear everything down anyway. I didn't pay attention to see if you could have taken the mains out without the crank.

Both engines run good but the one that was totally rebuilt with crank turned and block line-bored runs better.

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Erik in WI

12-11-2006 09:01:29




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 Re: Ways to pull sleeves without taking the crank in reply to Jonfarmer, 12-11-2006 08:52:08  
If you have a welder, weld beads on the sleaves.
Start with 4 beads, top to bottom, front, back, left and right. As the beads cool, they shrink, causing the sleave to shrink. Sometimes you can pull them out by hand, sometimes they need a little tap with a 5lb hammer and a oak 2x4.

Cover the crank with a wet towel, so the splatter doesn't hurt the crank journals.

Good luck
Erik in WI



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