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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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674 INTERNATIONAL DIESEL FUEL SUPPLY PUMP ?

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Scotty1

09-06-2006 19:50:02




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HI, I HAVE A 674 DIESEL THAT HAS A BAD SMOKING PROBLEM. I YANKED THE ENGINE DOWN AND COULDN'T FIND ANYTHING REALLY THAT JUMPED OUT AT ME AND SAID THIS IS YOUR SMOKING PROBLEM. I BOUGHT THE TRACTOR LIKE THIS THINKING THE ENGINE WAS JUST A LITTLE TIRED AND WHEN I PULLED THE ENGINE DOWN THAT MORE LESS IS WHAT I FOUND, A LITTLE WEAR SO I JUST PUT A SET OF RINGS, BEARINGS, NEW OIL PUMP HAD THE HEAD REWORKED AND MILLED DOWN , DID FIND A CRACKED VALUE GUIDE THAT I REPLACED, HONE THE CYLINDERS OUT TILL THEY LOOKED GOOD,DIDN'T HAVE MUCH WEAR LIP AT THE TOP OF THE CYLINDER SO I SMACKED EVERY THING BACK TOGETHER TO STILL HAVE THIS SMOKING PROBLEM. ENGINE SOUNDS GOOD AND STARTS GOOD. IT SEEMS TO SMOKE LESS THE MORE IT RUNS , SO THE HOTTER THE ENGINE GETS THE LESS IT SMOKES BUT NEVER CLEARS ALL THE WAY UP. THE SMOKES SMELLS LIKE ALOT OF FUEL IS IN IT AND IT BURNS MY EYES BAD, BLACKENS UP THE BACK OF THE TRACTOR AND AFTER I GET DONE RUNNING THE TRACTOR I HAVE TO GO IN AND TAKE A SHOWER AND CHANGE MY CLOTHES BECAUSE IT STINKS OF DIESEL FUMES SO BAD. I NOTICE THAT SOMEONE HAS INSTALL A ELECTRIC FUEL PUMP FOR A SUPPLY PUMP, MAYBE BECAUSE I DON'T SEE ANY TYPE OF SUPPLY PUMP ON THE TRACTOR . I'M THINKING THAT IT WAS A PAIN TO BLEED THE AIR OUT WITH JUST GRAVTIY, PLUS THE FUEL LINE IN SOME PLACES KINDA GOES UP HILL. CAN ANYONE TELL ME IF THE TRACTOR HAS A FUEL SUPPLY PUMP AND WHERE IT IS ?.... AND WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THIS ELECTRIC FUEL PUMP THAT HAS BEEN INSTALLED, GOOD IDEAL OR BAD? I TESTED THE INJECTORS AND I THINK THEY OPENED AT ABOUT 2000 PSI AND SPRAYING IN FOUR DIRECTIONS A GOOD LOOKING SPRAY. ALSO CAN ANYONE TELL ME A GOOD WAY TO TEST THE INJECTION PUMP TO SEE IF IT'S DOING IT'S JOB ? I HAVE RUN THE TRACTOR ABOUT 6 OR 8 HOURS AND I DID HAVE TO TOP OFF THE OIL BUT I DON'T THINK I TOP THE ENGINE OFF AFTER THE FIRST START UP,I JUST SHUT HER DOWN MADE SURE IT WAS ON THE STICK AND RAN IT LIKE I STOLE IT. I KINDA DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE TO DO BESIDES SEND THE INJECTOR PUMP SENT OFF AND HAVE IT SERVICED AND IF THAT AIN'T IT YANK THE ENGINE BACK DOWN AND PUT A SLEEVE KIT IN IT. I AIN'T RICH AND DON'T WANT TO DO THAT BUT IF I CAN COME UP WITH GOOD REASON THEN,
" MAN GOT TO DO WHAT A MAN'S GOT TO DO" . PLEASE HELP !!!!! THANKS FOR YOUR TIME AND ANY! HELP.....
SCOTTY

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Fromjb2

09-07-2006 19:27:02




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 Re: 674 INTERNATIONAL DIESEL FUEL SUPPLY PUMP ? in reply to Scotty1, 09-06-2006 19:50:02  
Hi Scotty, KB is correct the German D239 Diesel engine will smoke and slobber oily fuel if it is left idling to long. Yours is going to engine oil smoke for for a while until the new rings get seated.
How many hours does the hour meter show?

Here are things I would check:
1) The proper adjustment of the STOP/START/RUN control rod on the injection pump. As you probably know when the STOP/START/RUN lever on the dash is about 1/4 of the way up to the RUN position that this is the START position and it gives the injectors extra fuel just like a choke on a gas engine and in this position the tractor will smoke really bad. Next when the lever is in the RUN position the control arm on the side of the injection pump should be against the HP adjustment screw. Now check if this adjustment screw still has the wire seal on it. If the seal is gone chances are someone in the past has broken the seal and adjusted the HP adjustment screw out to increase the HP. We would do this on our 684 when we were using it to chop corn because the D239 would produce over 70HP with the screw turned out a couple turns. When the HP is adjusted upward the engine will smoke bad when it is idling. One way to correct this is to push the RUN lever down about 1/2 inch from top and this reduces the amount of fuel going to the engine and less smoke. We would do this when we used the 684 on the wood splitter or using it for light work. 2)Injection pump timing: a quick test of timing is after the engine is up to running temp. shut it off and then start it again if the engine starts right up with less than a rev of the crank then the timing is good, if it requires 3 or more revs then it is probably timed to slow and will smoke and slobber bad. If the engine kicks back on the starter it is timed to fast.
3)I am suspicious of that electric fuel pump putting to much pressure on the injection pump and causing over fueling and hence smoking.
Normally these tractors were gravity fed but they had a habit of getting junk in the fuel tank and restricting the fuel flow to the fuel filters. If you take the fuel line off at the inlet to the first fuel filter the fuel should flow the full of the pipe. If it doesn't there is a problem usually requires taking the outlet fitting out of the fuel tank on both sides. Don't let fuel tank lever get below a 1/4 tank or you could have fuel feed problems going up steep hills.
4)Make sure injector return line to the fuel tank is not clogged.

Another hint, add Diesel fuel conditioner or a tablespoon of engine oil every time you refuel the tractor. This is required to lube the front lip seal on the drive shaft of the injection pump. 40 years ago when the Bosch injection pump was designed Diesel fuel had a higher sulphur content thus providing good lubrication to the injection pump.

Hope this helps
JB2

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K.B.-826

09-07-2006 16:15:10




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 Re: 674 INTERNATIONAL DIESEL FUEL SUPPLY PUMP ? in reply to Scotty1, 09-06-2006 19:50:02  
That stinky blue smoke is very typical for an IH German diesel running at low speed/light load/cold. Those engines need to be worked and run fast. No matter how hard you work them, they will start stinking again after letting them idle a few minutes. That's just the way they are. Your injector opening pressures sound really low. A fresh set of injectors should give some improvement. Reusing the sleeves and pistons was probably a mistake, but I'd go after the injectors first. It sounds like your tractor has underslung exhaust? If you could convert to a vertical set-up, you could get the smoke up and away from yourself.

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Scotty1

09-07-2006 18:34:27




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 Re: 674 INTERNATIONAL DIESEL FUEL SUPPLY PUMP ? in reply to K.B.-826, 09-07-2006 16:15:10  
Thanks K.B.-826 for your help. Sounds good to me because that's about what happens to this tractor, the more and the harder I run this tractor the less it smokes. I have removed the injectors again to test them again to see exactly what psi they are opening at.The sleeves and pistons I knew to be 100% they should be replaced but thats the chance you take when money is a issue and it was for me . I've been bit in the butt before because of not being 100% Not something I'm not proud of but I usely bite the bullet and make it 100% and cry about it the whole time I'm doing the "Do-Over". I do have the under side exhaust and like the ideal of comming from the top high enough to get the smoke up and away from me. Thanks for your help K.B.-826
Scotty

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Fromjb2

09-07-2006 13:47:57




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 Re: 674 INTERNATIONAL DIESEL FUEL SUPPLY PUMP ? in reply to Scotty1, 09-06-2006 19:50:02  
Hi Scotty, injector opening pressure new 3100-3300 psi, used 2900 psi.

I have some other ideas will post later tonight.

JB2



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Scotty1

09-09-2006 13:40:11




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 Re: 674 INTERNATIONAL DIESEL FUEL SUPPLY PUMP ? in reply to Fromjb2, 09-07-2006 13:47:57  
Thanks JB2, I pulled the injectors back out and tested them. They break at about 3000 psi but they leak off and the fuel isn't spraying a fine mist when it does leak, more like 4 little streams. When I pump up the tester to see what they will break at, as long as I hit the pump handle hard and fast they spray good but if I build up about 3000 psi and try to hold steady pressure on the pump handle is when it leaks off. I took one of the injectors apart and the needle in the nozzle end has a wear ring around it. Could this be where the leak by is comming from ? Is this needle sord of like a needle and seat on a gas engine ? Thanks for your time JB2
Scotty

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Fromjb2

09-09-2006 19:29:08




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 Re: 674 INTERNATIONAL DIESEL FUEL SUPPLY PUMP ? in reply to Scotty1, 09-09-2006 13:40:11  
Hi Scotty, I have never worked on the injectors. My brother's 454, German D179 has over 15000 hrs and his 684 same as 674 has over 6500 hrs still running great. Secret is clean fuel, good storage tank and change fuel filters.

Re injectors, according to I&T Shop manual:
Nozzle showing visible wetting on the tip after 10 seconds at 2700 psi is permissible. Maximum leakage through return is 10 drops in one minute at 2700 psi. The manual does describe how to clean the nozzle tip and spray holes. It warns that valve and nozzle tips are mated parts and not to be interchanged.

Did you check the HP adjusting screw on the side of the injection pump for a broken or missing wire seal indicating someone has turned the pump up?

Hope this helps
JB2

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Scotty1

09-07-2006 18:07:44




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 Re: 674 INTERNATIONAL DIESEL FUEL SUPPLY PUMP ? in reply to Fromjb2, 09-07-2006 13:47:57  
Thanks for your help JB2. I've taken the injectors back out to test them again because I can't rember what they were opening at exactly. thanks JB2
Scotty



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richard in nz

09-07-2006 02:48:08




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 Re: 674 INTERNATIONAL DIESEL FUEL SUPPLY PUMP ? in reply to Scotty1, 09-06-2006 19:50:02  
Check the injectors are fitted the right way round - leakback pipes to the rocker cover side.



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Scotty1

09-07-2006 18:00:30




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 Re: 674 INTERNATIONAL DIESEL FUEL SUPPLY PUMP ? in reply to richard in nz, 09-07-2006 02:48:08  
Thanks Richard in NZ. for your help. I didn't know it mattered which side the leak back pipes went but I have taken the injectors back out to test again and when I put them back I will put them back with the leak back lines toward the value cover because I had them facing the other way, pointed away from the value cover. Thanks Richard

Scotty



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the tractor vet

09-06-2006 20:33:24




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 Re: 674 INTERNATIONAL DIESEL FUEL SUPPLY PUMP ? in reply to Scotty1, 09-06-2006 19:50:02  
Well if the injectors are cracking at 2000 lbs then i think that is way to soon and with out going out to the truck and getting the book my thinking is they should be cracking at around 2750 or better , next would be lazy timeing.



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Scotty1

09-07-2006 17:42:57




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 Re: 674 INTERNATIONAL DIESEL FUEL SUPPLY PUMP ? in reply to the tractor vet, 09-06-2006 20:33:24  
Thanks for your help Tractor Vet. I've taken the injectors back out and going to test them tommrrow to see exactly what they are opening at because I can't remeber for sure what they were opening at.I'll look in the manual tommorrw to see how to check the pump timing but mean while I'll see if the pump can be loosen and moved a little. Would lazy timing make smoke ? Thanks for your time and help
Scotty

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