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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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H with a cracked manifold ???

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old

06-11-2006 13:11:59




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Ok got in an H the other day and was playing with it today, even drove it a little. But any how I noticed that I was getting a lot of exhaust smoke for the manifold just above the carb. So tell me how this manifold is set up. Does it have an intake tupe/pipe up in the middle of the exhaust part and if so can I weld up the crack?? The crack is sort of and upside down U. Or would it be better to braze the crack?? Thanks
Oh by the way the crack is on the out side of the manifold in the area of the casting numbers

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Tallperson

06-12-2006 04:12:06




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 Re: H with a cracked manifold ??? in reply to old, 06-11-2006 13:11:59  
Hey there Old you are sure on the right line using Ni-rod. And I'm sure you know not to use an abrasive grinding wheel to clean and bevel the crack. The sand from the wheel gets into the casting pores, and when you apply the heat of the weld it turns into glass and messes up the weld. I wouldn't use the engine to heat the manifold. The exhaust gas will contaminate the clean weld area. I would preheat the area with a propane or oxyacetelene torch, then after welding you could start the motor to maintain the heat and then shut her down and allow it to cool gradually. Good luck . Tallperson

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Marty Johns

06-11-2006 18:00:56




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 Re: H with a cracked manifold ??? in reply to old, 06-11-2006 13:11:59  
25 yrs ago I ran a bowling alley! 1 nite a machine quit, and it was a cast part, that narmally did'nt break, so we never stocked a spare! I tried everything I knew! Then got desperate and tried a DC22/17 rod in a AC welder and it worked! it not only held for te nite, It held till I got a new one, a week later to replace it! should've left it on till it rebroke, just to know how long it may have lasted, but was more interested in keeping thigs running smoothly!!!!!

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Randy as in Randy-IA

06-11-2006 13:40:03




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 Re: H with a cracked manifold ??? in reply to old, 06-11-2006 13:11:59  
Hi Old , Good luck with either way ! Welding old rusty cast iron will drive you crazy and probably not hold for more than a few heat/cool cycles . Brazing on the other hand if you can get the area SPOTLESSLY clean inside and out MAY hold a little longer . I think your best bet is to find a good used one though others might disagree . A new one from wherever isn't over 145.00 and should be surface ground to flatten the mounting surface .

I looked into my M exhaust last weekend when I replaced the pipe with a galvanized one and was amazed to see how it was made . There's only two intake runners into the head that are between the two front and rear exhaust ports . The exhaust just goes into the large box-like plenum just above the pipe that the carb is attached to . It's got a well at the bottom about an inch wide that runs from front to back . The intake protrudes into the bottom/engine side of this box type area and splits to the front and rear . It's no wonder that they overheat when it get's hot out ! They'd probably put out a bunch more hp if the intake and exhaust could be seperated . But my manifold is a gas manifold so the multi-fuel manifolds might be a little different .

It's still very cool up here :*) good luck ...Randy

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old

06-11-2006 14:09:56




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 Re: H with a cracked manifold ??? in reply to Randy as in Randy-IA, 06-11-2006 13:40:03  
Well since you say tring to weld on the cast will drive me crazy and it probably will not hold long I guess I will just have to do my best to prove you wrong LOL. By the way I'm a retired welder, LOL. I plan to use NI-ROD on it when I weld it, something like a dollar a rod for the stuff. After I do it I'll post back as to how well it worked. Guess you could say I'm one of these guys that if I'm told it will not work I do my best to make it work. LOL I was once told I couldn't make a pull type disc into a 3 point disc but I did and it worked pretty good to boot. Of course if it doesn't work I have another H for parts any how but will try the welding first.

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Randy as in Randy-IA

06-11-2006 19:09:11




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 Re: H with a cracked manifold ??? in reply to old, 06-11-2006 14:09:56  
Whoa now ! I didn't say it wouldn't work ! ;+) I said it would drive you crazy and probably not last long , just because the cast is already crystalized and you can't undo that . The old smithy here in my neighborhood welds cast all the time but he has a forge to heat it in and cool it slow . He told me it has to be about a dull red to weld it good and it takes hours to cool down , sometimes overnight in fire heated sand to do the best job of preventing it from creating stress cracks . But manifold cast is the poorest form of cast iron and crystalizes due to the thousands of heat/cool cycles . Nickle rod is good but ask your welding supply house about cast iron rod . We have some at work but since I don't even know how to weld I've never used it . I do though know plenty of welders and help with it all the time at work so I've been around it plenty . Brazing is easier though and the cast doesn't get as hot so it doesn't crack as easy while it's cooling . It just doesn't look very good in my opinion . I've been told silver solder works well too but I've never seen that done to a manifold . It's melting point is above the temp's that the exhaust can produce . Good luck ! ...Randy

By the way , I'm the same way Old , don't tell me I CAN'T do something . My motto is - If there's a will , there a way . I have to find those way's since I got no friends here in Iowa so I have to do things on my own or sometimes with my BIL .

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old

06-11-2006 20:56:21




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 Re: H with a cracked manifold ??? in reply to Randy as in Randy-IA, 06-11-2006 19:09:11  
Well so far I have had very good luk with NI-ROD on cast other then on a MF mower that I broke and even then it lasted a couple years. The way this one is cracked I think if I start the engine and get it good and warm then shut it down and weld it and then start it again I might get by but who knows till its tried. Guess the good or bad thing is that this is a tractor that I will be selling after I get it running good. Any more I just plain have to many tractors and not enough of me to play with them. Shoot when I bale hay I have at least 4 tractors in the field. 1 to cut the hay, 1 to rake the hay, 1 to bale the hay and 1 to move the hay and then some times I have 1 or 2 more in case I have trouble with one of them

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MagMan

06-11-2006 14:46:08




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 Re: H with a cracked manifold ??? in reply to old, 06-11-2006 14:09:56  
well if you are a welder then I dont need to tell you this but this is what I did. I took the flux core wire in my mig. Size .30 or what ever it is or maybe .35 I cant remember the I took the torches and heated her rifght up goo welded it while my wife held the torch lightly on it. then kept heating it lightly for a while and very slowly let it cool down whele giving a little heat at a time. seemed to work pretty good . Sold the tractor but I can here its still quit from the neighbors when he uses it. lol JON

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old

06-11-2006 17:50:56




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 Re: H with a cracked manifold ??? in reply to MagMan, 06-11-2006 14:46:08  
Don't know, the way I plan to do it is this. I'll start the engine and let it run till good and warmed up. Then shut it down and do the welding and then start it back up. That way it gets hot form the engine and no tourch etc is needed. Of course I'll grind the area before I start the engine and may have to clean it up some after but it will be hot either way

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sde

06-11-2006 20:15:22




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 Re: H with a cracked manifold ??? in reply to old, 06-11-2006 17:50:56  
I posted earlier about my attempt to weld my exhaust manifold while it was still on the tractor. Afterward I had to remove the head because of slag getting in the second cyclinder. Small amounts were found in two other cyclinders as well. Before starting it, I had used a vacuum to suck them clean. The higher heat may make some of the rusted metal flake off and get into the cyclinders. My experience, and that of Tractor Vet (from his previous posts in archives)is don't weld it while on the tractor. Yours differs from mine in that you are going to weld the exterior while I tried to weld into the exhaust pipe opening.

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old

06-11-2006 20:44:04




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 Re: H with a cracked manifold ??? in reply to sde, 06-11-2006 20:15:22  
Ya this is on the exhaust side not the intake side of the manafold. If it where the intake I would even think about doing it on the engine



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GordoSD

06-12-2006 07:59:59




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 Re: H with a cracked manifold ??? in reply to old, 06-11-2006 20:44:04  
When you throw in the towel I've got one that's perfect,polished and painted, (black). new exhaust pipe goes with it.

Gordo



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old

06-12-2006 08:10:57




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 Re: H with a cracked manifold ??? in reply to GordoSD, 06-12-2006 07:59:59  
If I find it doesn't work I'll just pull the one off my parts tractor and save some $$$. I have 3 Hs at this time and 2 of them run and the other one I haven't played with yet



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