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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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more low ash oil discussion

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railhead

03-01-2006 19:28:32




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OK, hopefully some guys with petroleum expertise will chime in...but.... I have came to the conclusion that the "low ash oil" edict is a hoax. I have done "some" reading on the internet, I am NOT an expert. All I have read, the major oil companies advertise a oil designed for natural gas or LP use, they advertise low soot buildup, low carbon/sludge build up. BUT, they make the same claims of low soot etc for all their engine lubricants. Ash is an abrasive. What oil refinery would market oil in any form for any application with an abrasive in it? I have talked to a few old timers over coffee the past few mornings. These are guys that were in their prime as farmers and mechanics when tractors and combines were primarily powered by LP or Butane (they talk of 4-5 cents a gallon). They to a man have never heard of having to use low ash oil in these machines (made by MM, IH, JD, Case, Massey Harris etc etc etc.) If I am wrong, I will gladly listen and rethink my stance. For now I think the low ash claim is hooey. I am going to put Mystic JT-8 Heavy Duty SAE-30 (all the same claims of low soot and 32.00 for 5 gal)in my 806 LP. I am not going to be pulling anything with it. It is just a loader/utility tractor now, boring post holes, feeding hay, box blade work and the like. If the valves burn, I guess I will be out a top end rebuild. Please chime in with experiences.

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Aces

03-02-2006 10:04:12




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 Re: more low ash oil discussion in reply to railhead, 03-01-2006 19:28:32  
The ash was additives in the oil as detergents to keep the engine cleen. I was a mechanic in the 60's and 70's when IH came out with the low ash # one engine oil. I don't know why IH had the problem they had with the 263 291 gas engines that they had, but it was bad in the 656 706 806 gas engines. Carbon bulid up was bad, burning valves and causeing plugs to fail. I did not see it in the 460 and 560 near as bad as the 656 706 806. The 3 newer tractors would burn big chunks out of the valves and carbon would be hard and lots of it in the top of the cylinder.
IH said it was the oil and the ash in the oil, the oil people said no. Where I worked at the time we had a 806 that would only run about 100 hrs on a set of plugs, so we put some LP oil in it and the problem was much better. After IH came with the Low ash oil we had no more problem with the gas engines. Had a new 656 with about 100 hrs and it would not do the work of the 504 the guy had. Pulled the head off cleaned the carbon out of the head cleaned the valves gave the valves a little grind to reseat, new plugs and IH oil, put it on the dyno got about 66 HP, run like a champ. IH # one oil is all I ever but in a new overhaul. There were three metals in the oil one was magnesium, don't remember the other two. They way the low ash oil stoped the problem I sure am a believer.

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the tractor vet

03-02-2006 06:40:00




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 Re: more low ash oil discussion in reply to railhead, 03-01-2006 19:28:32  
I have seen first hand on the 460-560-706-806 and one 656 that did not run the low ash oil and was grinding feed with a 706 that did not have the lowash oil in it when half way thru the corn grinding running thru the small screen she ate #3 exhaust valve so i rebuilt the head with all new parts did this did that and the next time we had to grind feed half way thru the corn agin she ate a brand new Stelite exhaust valve then i starte checking and got to talk to and old I H mechanic from Indiana and he pulled the TSB on it and told me why we were eating Exhaust valves that is when we switched to the low ASH as i was getting tired of pullen the head and that is like running reg gas in any one of the above tractors it it is not the 93 octain and you work it she will seeze a piston or all six of them BTDT . If ya think i am kidding you get a Org . owners manual and READ the fuel requiments . As back when they were made reg gas was 95 octain .

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Thack

03-01-2006 21:56:59




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 Re: more low ash oil discussion in reply to railhead, 03-01-2006 19:28:32  
Railhead,

Sulfated Ash is "not" something a company looks to add to their oil but rather the solid matter that is left when oil burns. A oil with a high ash content will form more sludge (ash) than one with lower ash content.

Sooo...in reply, it is very real and "not" a hoax.

The most important properties of oil are viscosity, viscosity index, % ash, % zinz, flash point and pour point.



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