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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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IH paint, Reducer and what Hardner?????

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Wallace Merritt

02-24-2006 06:23:40




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I went to the IH/Case dealer and picked up some paint for my tractor and they don't sell hardner to go along with it. From what I have read everyone says to use reducer and hardner. I got the paint and reducer and I went the local auto paint store and showed them the can of paint and they guy went in the back and come out with Omni HG hardner MH202. I just want to make sure this is what I need and what's the mixing ratio for the paint, harnder and reducer. I will be mixing small amounts at a time do to a lot of small parts and limited space. Thanks for everyones help

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TONY JOHNSON

02-24-2006 17:43:51




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 Re: IH paint, Reducer and what Hardner????? in reply to Wallace Merritt, 02-24-2006 06:23:40  
the part number for the hardner is REN-3001 at a case ih dealer. its 30 bucks a pint...



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CNKS

02-24-2006 18:08:08




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 Re: IH paint, Reducer and what Hardner????? in reply to TONY JOHNSON, 02-24-2006 17:43:51  
And requires supplied air -- this is getting redundant, so be it. PPG Omni hardener is about $40 a quart. You sure the $30 is for a pint, or a quart? $60 a quart is a little too much for $45 paint.



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TONY JOHNSON

02-25-2006 10:38:53




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 Re: IH paint, Reducer and what Hardner????? in reply to CNKS, 02-24-2006 18:08:08  
im pretty sure about the quanity on that price, but not cetain.sorry to post twice didnt remember posting it twice... huh maybe that was retail price, still knock 30% off that would still be too high



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TONY JOHNSON

02-24-2006 17:43:29




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 Re: IH paint, Reducer and what Hardner????? in reply to Wallace Merritt, 02-24-2006 06:23:40  
the part number for the hardner is REN-3001 at a case ih dealer. its 30 bucks a pint...



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sgtbull

02-24-2006 14:15:54




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 Re: IH paint, Reducer and what Hardner????? in reply to Wallace Merritt, 02-24-2006 06:23:40  
I've used MARHYDE hardener for yrs. Its less expensive than many others, but I"ve had good luck w/ it. I have tractors that were painted with it yrs ago and they still look nice. I know that some guys can get beautiful results w/o hardener, but I'm just an average painter, but have had very nice looking results using the hardener....seems to shine better w/o going to the trouble of wet sanding and buffing.. I have to agree that the hardener makes the paint more resistant to occasional fuel and antifreeze spills, bird poop, and rock chips and scratches. I've used omni also, and haven't noticed any difference between it and the marhyde other than price. I use a high quality airmask, the cannister type, and can't even smell the paint fumes with it on. I use mostly traditional implement paints, eg, from Deere or Case IH and am completely satisfied w/ the end product...course, I also USE these tractors as well as show them, so I'm maybe a little less picky than some, but I'll put mine up against anyones and won't fair too bad.

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CNKS

02-24-2006 17:34:35




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 Re: IH paint, Reducer and what Hardner????? in reply to sgtbull, 02-24-2006 14:15:54  
You need to read my rant below, your canister mask is not adequate for hardeners.



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Mike S 806/H

02-24-2006 13:21:02




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 Re: IH paint, Reducer and what Hardner????? in reply to Wallace Merritt, 02-24-2006 06:23:40  
I have used the omni MH202 hardner and the omni reducer with 2150 it worked good, I also used the painters pride 747 hardener, I like the painters pride better,



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Wallace Merritt

02-24-2006 14:50:50




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 Re: IH paint, Reducer and what Hardner????? in reply to Mike S 806/H, 02-24-2006 13:21:02  
Mike what was the mixing ratio that you used for the Omni Hardner? Thanks for everyones help



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Mike S 806/H

02-24-2006 18:57:03




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 Re: IH paint, Reducer and what Hardner????? in reply to Wallace Merritt, 02-24-2006 14:50:50  
I mix it 8 parts paint to 1 part hardner, same with the reducer,



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sammy the RED

02-24-2006 10:34:56




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 Re: IH paint, Reducer and what Hardner????? in reply to Wallace Merritt, 02-24-2006 06:23:40  
Case/IH does sell the correct hardner. That is where I bought mine.



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Wallace Merritt

02-24-2006 07:19:04




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 Re: IH paint, Reducer and what Hardner????? in reply to Wallace Merritt, 02-24-2006 06:23:40  
I am aware of the dangers and I have the proper equipment. Thanks for the concern



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RustyFarmall

02-24-2006 11:50:14




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 Re: IH paint, Reducer and what Hardner????? in reply to Wallace Merritt, 02-24-2006 07:19:04  
Wait a minute here. You ask all those questions about paint, reducer, and hardener because you don't the answers, and then you tell us that you already have the proper protective equipment. If you didn't know what kind of materials you are dealing with, you can't possibly know if you have the proper equipment. I am not picking on you, just looking out for your health.



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Wallace Merritt

02-24-2006 14:55:29




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 Re: IH paint, Reducer and what Hardner????? in reply to RustyFarmall, 02-24-2006 11:50:14  
Thanks for your conceren really. I have a freind that is a painter and will be painting this as a side job for me in his paint booth. He has never used tractor paint and wants to make sure and use the correct harnder. He also said that Hardner should be used for durablity. Thanks



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Pete7

02-24-2006 07:22:51




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 Re: IH paint, Reducer and what Hardner????? in reply to Wallace Merritt, 02-24-2006 07:19:04  
You might want to check over on the Paint and Bodywork board. I see a recent discusion about IH paint and hardners.

pete



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RustyFarmall

02-24-2006 07:12:59




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 Re: IH paint, Reducer and what Hardner????? in reply to Wallace Merritt, 02-24-2006 06:23:40  
While it is true that a lot of folks recommend using the hardener, there are also quite a few of us that refuse to use that dangerous stuff, and we achieve every bit as desirable results as the guys that use it. Hardener is dangerous stuff, special respiratory protection is required, and we are not talking about just a cotton dust mask here. The proper gear can be quite costly, and if you don't use it, you will suffer some very unpleasant consequences. Case-IH did not have the hardener because it is not required.

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Baelee05

02-24-2006 10:10:41




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 Re: IH paint, Reducer and what Hardner????? in reply to RustyFarmall, 02-24-2006 07:12:59  
Rusty, if all you are doing is adding hardener a cartridge mask can be bought for about $30.00 that will adequately protect you. Some are designed to be resused but have a limited shelf life after being opened. I always throw them away after a project is finished. Hardener is essential for a quality paint job. Can you make a tractor look really good without it? Yes you can, but it comes down to durability of the finished product. Paint without hardener will spot from fuel spillage and bird droppings. The paint without hardener will not hold its luster for more than a few years either. I have painted tractors both ways. The ones I painted with hardener still look like they were painted yesterday. The ones without still look nice but have dulled some. If you get a run while painting with hardener you can sand it out the next day. If you get a run without hardener you are pretty much stuck with it unless you want to wait a week or two for it to cure enough to sand it. Plain enamel CIH paint with hardener is not anymore dangerous than straight enamel. If you move up to some of the mid to higher end products like acrylic enamel, synthetic enamels etc, you need to be careful with those. I have used an acrylic enamel system from PPG many times. The stuff is a joy to use, but requires a really good respirator or a fresh air system. If you don't want to use hardner in your enamel that is your choice but you'll have to find another excuse besides "its too dangerous".

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Farmallgray

02-24-2006 17:37:33




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 Re: IH paint, Reducer and what Hardner????? in reply to Baelee05, 02-24-2006 10:10:41  
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it is the hardener that has the isocynates (the bad stuff)
not the paint.



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CNKS

02-24-2006 17:31:48




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 Re: IH paint, Reducer and what Hardner????? in reply to Baelee05, 02-24-2006 10:10:41  
Baelee05 and anyone else who does or does not care -- I am tired of the incorrect information and misconceptions about hardeners, I do not care how many tractors you have painted, or what you have used, or who told you that a charcoal mask will filter iso's. When you say "Plain enamel CIH paint with with hardener is not anymore dangerous that straight enamel" you are WRONG. All hardeners except those used for epoxy primers contain isocyanates, not the paint, the HARDENER. It is true that the formulations for alkyd and acrylic enamels and the urethanes are different, but they ALL contain iso's. I believe there is only one company that makes iso's, it supplies all paint manufacturers. A NEW charcoal mask will filter iso's IF it fits properly. Since they only come in small, medium, and large, a perfect fit is not likely. Also no one knows how long the charcoal will give adequate filtering. You can't go by odor, because iso's themselves have little or no odor. I apologize for the rant, because you simply do not know any better, but incorrect information about safety should not be tolerated.

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RustyFarmall

02-24-2006 11:43:15




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 Re: IH paint, Reducer and what Hardner????? in reply to Baelee05, 02-24-2006 10:10:41  
Sorry Bailee, You'll have to come up with a better argument than that one. IH did not use hardener in the paint 60 years ago, and the 2150 that Case-IH offers now is a much better product than what was available 60 years ago. I do know the risks, and I also know that the mask you mentioned is not effective for me inasmuch as I have been oversensitized to some chemicals. I get along just fine with straight paint as long as I have adequate ventilation. If you want to pay the extra expense of the hardener, and run the risk of damaging your health, go right ahead, but please don't come to this board and tell everybody that it is OK to use that stuff because you won't get a quality paint job without it. It just isn't true.

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w gatewood

02-25-2006 05:13:43




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 Re: IH paint, Reducer and what Hardner????? in reply to RustyFarmall, 02-24-2006 11:43:15  
rusty farmall , you haven't been to your local case ih dealer for awhile . they are now carring a hardner from valspar the mfg of the case ih paint. i just purshed 3 pt this past week.



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John in Ct

02-24-2006 15:31:26




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 Re: IH paint, Reducer and what Hardner????? in reply to RustyFarmall, 02-24-2006 11:43:15  
Don't forget that the paint 60 years ago had lead in it. I have used the case/IH yellow. It is still as shinny as the day it was put on!! Also it is as smooth as glass!!! But I also realize that if I spill any gas(we have that junk alcohol gas here) the paint will be ruined. I wish I did use Imron.



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CNKS

02-24-2006 17:52:58




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 Re: IH paint, Reducer and what Hardner????? in reply to John in Ct, 02-24-2006 15:31:26  
Hardened paint isn't that resistant to gas either, at least not within a month or so of painting. Don't ask me how I know.



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little john

02-24-2006 07:01:41




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 Re: IH paint, Reducer and what Hardner????? in reply to Wallace Merritt, 02-24-2006 06:23:40  
Be sure and read the precautions about hardener that were posted on here a couple days ago.



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Wallace Merritt

02-24-2006 06:25:16




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 Re: IH paint, Reducer and what Hardner????? in reply to Wallace Merritt, 02-24-2006 06:23:40  
One other question. What is the dealers paint? Is it Acrylic Enamel or ????? Thanks for everyones help



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CNKS

02-24-2006 17:47:58




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 Re: IH paint, Reducer and what Hardner????? in reply to Wallace Merritt, 02-24-2006 06:25:16  
The current Case-IH paint is called "acrylic modified alkyd enamel". That is it is the same as the cheap alkyd enamel that you can buy at tractor supply etc, WITH some acrylic properties, one of which is greater fade resistance. Thus it is better than alkyd enamel, perhaps a little worse than acrylic enamel, and definitely not as good as acrylic urethane, even the "economy" types. Although I have no desire to use it since I much prefer acrylic urethane, most people on this forum seem to like it. It is an improvement over the CIH paint of only a few years ago. Many if not all of the major paint companies manufacture it, it is usually in their industrial, as opposed to their automotive lines. The only advantages is that it does not require hardener (although it will have more gloss with hardener) and it is cheap.

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Baelee05

02-24-2006 10:15:38




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 Re: IH paint, Reducer and what Hardner????? in reply to Wallace Merritt, 02-24-2006 06:25:16  
Wallace any paint I have ever seen from an implement store was straight enamel. I don't think they handle acrylic enamel. With the straight enamel with a hardener you won't have to worry quite as much about the fumes. You still want a really good mask though. I personally like the way the acrylic enamel systems work but they are more dangerous.



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CNKS

02-24-2006 18:04:34




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 Re: IH paint, Reducer and what Hardner????? in reply to Baelee05, 02-24-2006 10:15:38  
A charcoal mask in good condition that fits will filter the fumes from either synthetic(alkyd) enamel (that you are calling straight enamel), or acrylic enamel. It is the hardener that you need supplied air for, not the unhardened acrylic enamel. There is an exception to this. One of DuPont's acrylic enamel formulations, I believe one of the Centari formulations -- there is more than one (I'm not that familiar with DuPont) must have hardener. Otherwise, acrylic enamel is no more dangerous than than, as you say "straight" enamel -- PROVIDED you are wearing a properly fitting mask with good filters. You really need to read the safety instructions that come with the products you use. They are not hype, they mean what they say.

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