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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Super M hard to start

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Jeff Jackson

12-07-2005 09:01:41




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I have a '53 Super M that is hard/slow to turn over and start. I have a full charged battery but it wants to crank over slow and hesitates to crank at times. It does this in warm weather as well. Once started it runs well but once you shut if off it is again almost impossible to start until it cools down for some time and then back to the slow cranking. Any opinions/ suggestions/advice form the experts? By the way, a fantastic forum!!!!!

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BillyinStoughton

12-08-2005 07:56:25




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 Re: Super M hard to start in reply to Jeff Jackson, 12-07-2005 09:01:41  
As is always the first suggestion...absolutely positively start with the correct battery cables! 2 gauge or better is a must on a 6V system. They give you all those massive terminals on the starter switch and starter for a reason. The best means for correct cables is to visit the welding supply store and build them as you need. It will probably cost you $40, but they will last as long as the M. Another good tip is to NOT crimp the terminals on...solder them on with electrical solder. Put the terminal in a vise with the open end facing up. Insert the cable and heat the terminal with a torch. All that's left is to feed the solder in till the terminal is completely full. Let the terminal cool for a few minutes. With the terminal full of solder, it's IMPOSSIBLE for moisture to get in there. Be sure to use shrink tube over the connection to make it water tight. As long as you keep the terminals coated once installed, it will be the last set of cables you will ever buy.

The next thing to look at after that is the starter. I would remove it and just have it gone through (brushes, starter drive, etc). The cost isn't exuberant if you know the right people, and the reliability will again be there. Another thing to be sure to have done, is to have the armature cut. A lot of rebuilders will overlook this, and it WILL affect the performance of the starter. Be sure to clean the housing where the starter mounts too, to insure a good ground (+).

You should be good to go after that. Do it once, and do it right...you won't have to worry about it again! This is how I have my H set up, and I never have to worry about whether it is going to crank over or not.

Isn't this winter stuff great? 0 degrees here in Wisconsin is a test for an starter and fuel system.

Good luck!

Billy

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El Toro

12-07-2005 11:48:46




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 Re: Super M hard to start in reply to Jeff Jackson, 12-07-2005 09:01:41  
Your condenser or coil may be weak when it won't start when warm. Hal



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captaink

12-07-2005 10:16:10




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 Re: Super M hard to start in reply to Jeff Jackson, 12-07-2005 09:01:41  
Others have good places to start. but one other area that is often overlooked are the mating joints of the starter. This includes the housing where the starter bolts to the tractor, between the nose cone (where the starter drive is) and the field housing (middle of starter) and the end cap where the brushes are. Clean, bright, and tight are the three magic words when it comes to current flow, and these joints serve as the ground part of the electrical circuit for the starter.

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john d

12-07-2005 09:51:03




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 Re: Super M hard to start in reply to Jeff Jackson, 12-07-2005 09:01:41  
Good heavy cables and clean connections are the place to start, as others have suggested. Check the starter motor as well, if it is reluctant to spin.
Assuming you're still on 6 volts, the problem then becomes, is it refusing to turn over because the starter simply can't overcome the compression? If the starter is good, and the cables are good, and the connections are all good, 6 volts should turn it if the engine is even close to stock.

Having said all that, if it's like an M that I have, with high compression and over-bore pistons, then 6 volts is a marginal way to turn it, no matter the temperature. I went to 12 volts on that one.

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Aces

12-07-2005 09:42:34




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 Re: Super M hard to start in reply to Jeff Jackson, 12-07-2005 09:01:41  
Jeff One thing for sure don't jump into 12V if it is still 6V. Old and Ernest are right. Get the best one piece cables you can find. And clean all connections very clean and put the cables on battery dry no grease. Have the starter checked, make sure the bushings are good and make sure it has a center bushing where the head bolts on to houshing. Don't run the starter long you can through the soder out, but make sure it has good RPM before you put it back on tractor. The 53 dad had was that way but it statered first piston up. So check ignition system it has to be perfict.

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old

12-07-2005 09:15:15




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 Re: Super M hard to start in reply to Jeff Jackson, 12-07-2005 09:01:41  
12 volt or 6 volt?? Check all connections starting at the battery and make sure there clean tight and brite. Also does it have the right size battery cables, if it has auto type cables there half your problem. It need to have 0 or 00 battery cables. How good is your spark at the plugs?? IF its not a good blue spark theres part of the problem. You also may have a starter dragging which will also cause slow engine turn over. Just a few things to look at. I'm no expert but I do take a lot of dead tractor and make them run.

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Ernest

12-07-2005 09:07:11




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 Re: Super M hard to start in reply to Jeff Jackson, 12-07-2005 09:01:41  
I am no expert. But I suspect loose ground, or bad batery cables along the line some where, along with a starter switch. My 1952 super M does this also. I just need to take off the old wires and replace them. I can watch my ground wire move when I crank the tractor.

Your problem of waiting till it cools down could also be related to the coil.



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Janicholson

12-07-2005 09:57:16




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 Re: Super M hard to start in reply to Ernest, 12-07-2005 09:07:11  
I am inclined toward bushings in the starter.
Take the starter apart and look to see if there is wear on the outside of the armature, and the surface of the field poles.
Rubbing is an indication of need for bushings. Heated up they rub more. Let the forum know the outcome with a new post.

My two cents. JimN



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Ernest

12-07-2005 10:36:07




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 Re: Super M hard to start in reply to Janicholson, 12-07-2005 09:57:16  
Mine is a new starter and it still is slow. But when I bypass the wires it is fine.
Like anything else time and money!



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