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M 12 volt conversion starter motor issue

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e-manhunt

11-14-2005 15:16:25

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Just had the starter drive rebuilt --the gears were chewed off -- and I am thankful the problem wasn't a chewed up gear ring. However, the guy who fixed the starter said the gear teeth sheared off the starter because it was spinning too fast because of the 12 volt conversion. The starter couldn't engage all the way, so the gears were sheared off by the gear ring. He thought this would continue to happen. What do you think? I don't know if this makes sense.

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e-manhunt

11-17-2005 07:42:49

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Re: M 12 volt conversion starter motor issue in reply to e-manhunt, 11-14-2005 15:16:25

Thanks everyone. I love my tractor, and this forum keeps it working!

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captaink

11-15-2005 08:40:59

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Re: M 12 volt conversion starter motor issue in reply to e-manhunt, 11-14-2005 15:16:25

I going to add my 10 cents here (inflation you know). My guess is that the starter drive was buggered up when it was still 6 volts. The 12 volt battery will spin the starter faster, causing the drive to move into the flywheel faster, and engage harder. If your starter drive is not fully engaging in the flywheel, it is either because the teeth on the flywheel or starter drive are preventing it or the twist in the starter armature has a burr on it preventing the drive from moving to the end of the shaft. The way the drive is designed, once the teeth begin to mesh into the ring gear the twist on the armature pushes it even harder into the ring gear. Actually, the harder the engine turns over, the more force is applied to the drive to keep it meshed with the ring gear!

As many here already know I have an M that was the only loader tractor on the farm from 1965 to 1995 and was fired up at least twice every day to do chores. It was converted to 12 volts in the late 60�s and I have replaced the starter once since then. (It�s a 1950 and that was the original I replaced.) HOWEVER, I did have problems with the OEM spring style starter drive giving me fits. I finally found a heavy duty clutch style at a part house several years ago that cost more than the OEM, but it was the end of the starter problems, period!

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Don L C

11-15-2005 07:08:18

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Re: M 12 volt conversion starter motor issue in reply to e-manhunt, 11-14-2005 15:16:25

The partsman doesen't know what he is talking about.....the bendex must be fullly extended to enguage the ring gear....just do not over crank the starter notor and you will be OK.....Don L C

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VOLfarmall

11-15-2005 03:46:01

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Re: M 12 volt conversion starter motor issue in reply to e-manhunt, 11-14-2005 15:16:25

I have a M that has been convereted for 20 years,have put on 1 starter.also have a super M no trouble.A200 no trouble, and a cub no trouble , if you have a problem statring you just have to know not to stay on the starter for long period of time that will cause problems, just use common sence.

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John T

11-14-2005 19:13:27

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Re: M 12 volt conversion starter motor issue in reply to e-manhunt, 11-14-2005 15:16:25

e man, Ive NEVER had a starter go bad because its a 6 volt and I converted the tractor to 12 and kept the old starter. HOWEVER I agree it can possibly be a tad tougher on the drives due the the increased kick in torque when you use 12 volts on a 6 volt starter. If youre having a starter repaired, I wouldnt worry about any trouble in the near future, they can and do eventually wear out regardless you know.

John T

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Bob M

11-14-2005 16:57:41

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Re: M 12 volt conversion starter motor issue in reply to e-manhunt, 11-14-2005 15:16:25

The guy who told you that is blowing smoke - he doesn't fully understand how the starter works!

The design of the bendix drive is such that it CANNOT begin to turn the flywheel until the starter pinion is fully engaged with the ring gear - i.e. until the pinion reaches the end of it's travel on the bendix screw.

The problem you had is the starter was improperly aligned with the flywheel ring gear, or more likely it was simply worn out.

FWIW I did my first 12 volt conversion nearly 30 years ago - it is still going strong on the original 6 volt starter and drive.

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NDS

11-14-2005 16:05:30

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Re: M 12 volt conversion starter motor issue in reply to e-manhunt, 11-14-2005 15:16:25

Back when my Dad was running Ms fulltime he changed them all over to 12 volts with no change to starter. He did not have any premature starter drive problems and these tractors ran more in one year than most Ms today will run in 10.

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Dellbertt

11-14-2005 16:01:19

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Re: M 12 volt conversion starter motor issue in reply to e-manhunt, 11-14-2005 15:16:25

In my opinion problems with starter gear and ring gears are related to the fact that engines have a tendency to always stop at the same place. I had an H that would always stop in the same place and the starter would not engage properly so I would leave the trans in gear and let the clutch out a little to move the ring gear just before the engine stopped.

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old

11-14-2005 15:23:35

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Re: M 12 volt conversion starter motor issue in reply to e-manhunt, 11-14-2005 15:16:25

I've heard that before but, I don't belive it because theres so many tractors out there with 12 volt batterys and 6 volt starter that if it was true there would be a lot of bad starter drive out there. Most of my tractors are 12 volt with 6 volt starter on them and I have never had any problems with the drive.

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Andy Martin

11-14-2005 15:58:37

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Re: M 12 volt conversion starter motor issue in reply to old, 11-14-2005 15:23:35

Ditto

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Janicholson

11-14-2005 17:00:04

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Re: M 12 volt conversion starter motor issue in reply to Andy Martin, 11-14-2005 15:58:37

I believe it was a defective drive (or cheap) with bad temper in the teeth.
A starter that spins the engine rapidly and gets it operating pronto, works less than one grinding away to eventually get it started. (think Eore here) The reliability is the same 6 or 12, they are not the most trouble free system, but they don't burn up on 12.
JimN

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