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sigh, (from fender-man)

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Pand R Pete

10-04-2005 19:34:16

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Me, who doesn't know my *ss from a grille from a fender...
Thought I could get my governor off my Super A without taking off the radiator. Nope, wouldn't fit. Had to leave it dangling while I took off the radiator.

Come in the house to this forum, about two hours too late, to find "Part Man" had written, in my last post (asking about getting off the governor), "If you're careful you should be able to get the governor housing with out the gear, and YES the governor gear IS timed. Not a biggy with a distributer, but esential with a mag".
The gear came out while I was fumbling trying to get the governor off with the radiator in.
And yes, this gear drives my distributor.
Any wisdom about how I get the gears and the distributor in synch again?
Dang service manual didn't say squat about marking the gear prior to removal. Hope this isn't a fatal mistake.

The governor will have to go to a shop. All kinds of play where the shafts go through the housing, and the main spring is under no tension whatsoever, I can lift it right out of there.

Guess it's good I took off the radiator. I need belts and new hoses.

Lastly, it's got that "thermo-siphon" system, ie, no water pump. My radiator cap is loose, even fully cranked on. Is it supposed to be that way as part of the 'thermo-siphon' system, or do I need a new cap?

Thanks for any help forthcoming. Even from Akmed.

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williamf

10-05-2005 14:10:42

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Re: *sigh*, (from fender-man) in reply to Pand R Pete, 10-04-2005 19:34:16

I don't know much of anything about the particular mechanical problem you're having, but I wanted to post to tell you that it's nice to have you here. Sometimes the local smartalecks put off new people with their antics. It's good that you can take them with equanimity, knowing that they don't mean offence.
Wm

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Slappy

10-05-2005 03:44:07

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Re: *sigh*, (from fender-man) in reply to Pand R Pete, 10-04-2005 19:34:16

Like CNKS, I haven't had the governor off my SA either (yet), but have taken it off my Cub. I believe that matching the timing marks should be similar. That is, you should be able to set the engine at TDC with the crank and the two gear marks CNKS referrs to should be visible. If the marks are on the distributor side, you you should see them when remove the distributor. Either way, if you are careful you can aline the marks with the proper tooth on the govenor gear. The gears are beveled so thake that into account. Again, there may be something about the A tractors that I am not considering, hopfully others will correct me if I'm off base here.

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CNKS

10-04-2005 20:00:27

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Re: *sigh*, (from fender-man) in reply to Pand R Pete, 10-04-2005 19:34:16

I have not had the governor off my C or Super A, so I probably should not comment. I will quote what it says in the A service manual -- I do not know if this applies to a distributer. It mentions removing the front cover, I doubt if you can see the marks without doing so: "---A single center punch mark between the teeth on the crankshaft pinion should line up with a single punch mark on a tooth on the camshaft gear; and two punch marks on a tooth of the camshaft gear should should line up with two punch marks between teeth on the magneto and governor pinion." As to the radiator cap, if your system is pressurized, the cap fits on the OUTSIDE of the filler neck -- if it is loose you need a new cap, hopefully someone hasn't messed up the radiator neck. If the radiator is not pressurized, the cap attaches to the INSIDE of the neck, and does not need to be absolutely tight, as it will leak when pressure builds up anyway, as long as it doesn't rattle around and fall off. The caps are not interchangeable.

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P and R Pete

10-05-2005 05:15:38

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Re: *sigh*, (from fender-man) in reply to CNKS, 10-04-2005 20:00:27

Thanks guys. I see that now, in my service manual. My fault...I should have known enough to research this before pulling off the governor. If I have to pull the front cover, so be it. I want the shop guys to look at the governor weights anyway, and make sure the pins aren't worn.
I'm not sure I'm believing that it's the correct spring in there, either.

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parts man

10-05-2005 14:35:29

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Re: *sigh*, (from fender-man) in reply to P and R Pete, 10-05-2005 05:15:38

There's no need to take the front cover off, at TDC on #1 you should be able to see the timing marks on the cam gear (may have to wipe the gear with a rag tho), and line them up with the governor gear marks. Your service manual should have the procedure for retiming the distributer.

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Janicholson

10-05-2005 06:08:59

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Re: *sigh*, (from fender-man) in reply to P and R Pete, 10-05-2005 05:15:38

Putting on a waterpump might be somthing to consider. Especially if you intend to work it a bit. there is a casting that gos between the engine and the pump that is needed for the SC pump to attach.
my-2-cents---JimN

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P and R Pete

10-05-2005 06:48:38

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Re: *sigh*, (from fender-man) in reply to Janicholson, 10-05-2005 06:08:59

Thanks, Jim. A water pump seems like a great idea. I'm not sure there's room for another pulley, unless it would join the crankshaft/fan pulleys, with a bigger belt, or such. I'll ask the IH guy when I take my governor in. I can't understand "thermo-siphoning", as it is, if it's a passive system. Doesn't seem like it could be very efficient. Now's the time to do it, while I have the radiator off.

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Janicholson

10-05-2005 08:49:40

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Re: *sigh*, (from fender-man) in reply to P and R Pete, 10-05-2005 06:48:38

Thermo siphon is simple. Heated liquid is lighter than cool liquid. The level in the system is higher than the hoses and passages, so the warmed up block water (antifreeze) raises and displaces cool radiator water, which flows into the block and cools it. The cooling is a little less even, and less able to remove heat under conditions of stress (high loads and hot ambient temps).

The thermo siphon system may not have a thermostat in it. A 170-180 degree t-stat is a good idea with a pump because the engine temp will never move the gauge without it, and cold engines carbon up more than hot ones, while being less efficient.

The radiator on a non-pressureized system will not be able to stand pressure. The neck could be changed to a pressure cap style, but the tank and tubes may be ill prepared for 6-7 psi (the normal pressurization for early letter series) If a radiator "MAN" guarantees it, and is willing to cover your labor to R&R the radiator, then I'd use the old rad. Pressurization allows higher operating temps in the engine this adds efficiency and lowers fuel consumption some. It also allows more heat to be removed (the higher the temperature in the radiator the easier the air can remove temp)
There is no need to do the pressure thing, just info. Good luck JimN

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